Thou shalle speake Englishe

Jim   Friday, October 03, 2003, 00:41 GMT
If people don't know the difference between "I" and "me", then, I guess, there's not much hope for them but for the majority of English speakers, those who can handle basic stuff like "I" verses "me", the words "thee", "thou", "thy" and "thine" shouldn't be too hard ... if you know the simple rule.

The simple rule is that these "th-" words match the "m-" words that rhyme leaving "thou" to match with "I". Here's what I mean:

1st person possesive object "mine" matches 2nd person possesive object "thine",
1st person possesive adjective "my" matches 2nd person possesive adjective "thy" and
1st person object "me" matches 2nd person object "thee" leaving
1st person subject "I" to match 2nd person subject "thou".

The "I", "me", etc. are all singular same with the others in O.E. but M.E. is a different story but I've already gone on about that.

Any native speaker with a half-decent intellect and a half-decent education should have picked up on this even though these words may be long extinct in most dialects.

What they might be forgiven for not knowing might be the history of the distinction between the "thou", "thy", etc. words and the "you", "your" ones; the way verds conjugate with these words and how "thine" (or "mine") can be used in place of "thy" (or "my") if the following word starts with a vowel (or an unstressed syllable spelt with an initial "h").
Jay   Friday, October 03, 2003, 01:41 GMT
Slightly off subject, but this reminds me of one of my American English pet peeves: using the same word for "you" plural and "you" singular.
Though we do try to come up with different "you" plurals. . .
yous
youse
yous guys
you all
y'all
yinz
----
Maybe one day "yinz" will take over.
mjd   Friday, October 03, 2003, 01:55 GMT
"yous"....that's one that definitely grates on my ears. Thankfully, one doesn't hear it too often.
Antonio   Friday, October 03, 2003, 12:41 GMT

mjd:

I suppose I could put up with ´yous´. Having the same form for one person and more than one may sometimes be a problem. That´s why I think ´thou´should be used!

I propose the use of the second person on this forum.
Thanks Jim   Friday, October 03, 2003, 13:10 GMT
"1st person possesive object "mine" matches 2nd person possesive object "thine",
Thanks Jim   Friday, October 03, 2003, 13:12 GMT
"1st person possesive object "mine" matches 2nd person possesive
object "thine",
Thanks Jim, last attempt to post!   Friday, October 03, 2003, 13:14 GMT
This is much clearer when explained your way!

What about those "st", were they put at the end of all the verbs (dost, didst)? and "t" at the end of the auxiliaries (Shalt)?

OK, It must be more complicated than that since speak take a "e"...
.   Friday, October 03, 2003, 21:36 GMT
.
Simon   Tuesday, October 07, 2003, 13:14 GMT
In some Victorian novels, rural characters often use Thee, Thou etc. which suggests that it still existed in the nineteenth century in some rural dialects. The Victorians would have looked down on such people.

Incidentally, why do Americans refer to the Victorian period for the USA? It was our queen not yours!
Jim   Wednesday, October 08, 2003, 04:22 GMT
The "est"/"st"/"t" go with "thou".
The "th" goes with "he"/"she"/"it".

e.g.

"Thou givest."
"He taketh."

"Thou gavest."
"She tooketh."

"It gaveth."
"Thou tookest."

"Thou hast taken."
"He hath given."

"Thou art not a good friend."
"Thou wert a good friend."

"Thou wilt not die."
"Thou shalt not kill."

"Thou wouldst drink ale."
"Thou shouldst water."
"Thou couldst drink aught."

"Thou dost eat bread."
"Thou didst eat cake yesterday."
"Thou hadst eaten all thy cake and drunk all thy wine before thy friends did come to that party of thine."
Simon   Wednesday, October 08, 2003, 08:49 GMT
"Thou hadst eaten all thy cake and drunk all thy wine before thy friends did come to that party of thine."

Who toldeth thou?
Simon   Wednesday, October 08, 2003, 12:27 GMT
sorry - Who toldeth thee?