The ''a'' sound in ''madder'' and ''matter''

This was being discussed on another thread and I decided to make a new thread about. Mjd says that the ''a'' sound in ''madder'' is different to the ''a'' sound in ''matter'', would you agree?

''in addition, the "a" sound is different in the two words (definitely in my accent).''

mjd, I don't get it. The ''a'' sound is the same in those two words. ''madder'' [m@d..r] and ''matter'' is [m@t..r].

Mjd, do ''madder'' and ''ladder'' rhyme in your accent. And, what about ''matter'' and ''latter'', do they rhyme?

mjd, in Tom's chart, What sound are you talking about? There's only a symbol for one kind of ''a'' sound? I don't agree that ''matter'' and ''madder'' have much of a difference ''if any at all'' in their ''a'' sound.

For me "ladder" and "matter" have the same 'a' sound, but the 'a' in "mad" and "madder" sounds a bit different...."mad" has the same 'a' sound as "cab," "drab," "pad." I don't know how else to illustrate this short of recording my voice.

In my East Coast (New Jersey) accent:

"Mad" and "Mary" have the same vowel sound.
"Matter" and "marry" have the same vowel sound.

The author of this thread wrote: "mjd, I don't get it. The 'a' sound is the same in those two words. 'madder' [m@d..r] and 'matter' is [m@t..r]."

Well, you need to understand that there are different accents in this world. I don't have a Midwestern or a Californian accent...."merry," "marry," and "Mary" sound different. The same goes for "madder" and "matter."

I agree with mjd's first paragraph though I'm not American but have the same pronunciation of these words.

The best way to explain this difference is in terms of length or stress. Madder, mad, cab, bag, dam, man and most 'ad', 'ab', 'ag', 'an', 'am' endings: all share a long or stressed /@/ in common.
Matter, bladder, cat, pack, tap, tat, axe: all have a short /@/

I imagine all this relates back to the "merry," "marry," and "Mary" syndrome which helps to explain our differences.

Mjd, do ''mad'' and ''yeah'' have the same vowel sound in your accent? In my accent ''mad'' has the ''a'' sound in ''ladder'' and ''badder'' and ''yeah'' has the ''e'' sound in ''get'' and ''set''.

On "mad" and "yeah"...

Yes, they do.

I pronounce "marry", "Mary", and "merry" differently too. However, I pronounce the "a" in "matter", "madder", and "marry" the same way.