How come Dutch people are so good at languages?

Julian   Saturday, September 25, 2004, 18:08 GMT
I recently watched this excellent documentary on television about the Dutch people's continous battles with the sea -- building such innovative and state-of-the-art herculean structures to keep the sea from engulfing the entire country. I didn't quite understand though why the Dutch chose to live on land once submerged underwater in the first place. Wouldn't it have been easier (and cheaper!) to move to higher ground or reclaim Belgium? ;-)

My only bone of contention with the documentary, though, was that every time a Dutch person would speak -- in perfect, intelligible English, I might add -- they were subtitled in English! How incredibly insulting to the Dutch and to the viewers! Do the producers take us for morons? (don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question).
Peter   Saturday, September 25, 2004, 20:33 GMT
Lots of facts has been told about Netherlands in this thread. But I think nobody has mentioned about one thing which comes from Holland and is famous all over the world. It's one of the best thing that Holland has got.

It's Grolsch - a beer ;) A very good beer indeed, as well as Heineken that also comes from Holland.
When there is good fun somewhere - IT MUST BE HEINEKEN.

But, in my opinion, Polish beer - Zywiec is as good as Heini or even a little better ;)
Maya l'abeille   Saturday, September 25, 2004, 21:52 GMT
The Dutch have dried out a large number of lakes through windmills only because they needed some extra space to build habitations. Amazing isn't it? Besides, some cities have been built up right over lakes. Some say the Dutch have grown so tall through walking across deep water or to compensate the fact that they live in Low Lands. Some others claim it's through having a lot of milk products everyday. But it all sounds a bit absurd, doesn't it?

Of course, no trip to the Netherlands would be complete without having been to a good pub for a Pint of Amstel or any of those gorgeous lagers. ;)
Jordi   Monday, September 27, 2004, 05:36 GMT
I knew about dairy products. I'll add the beer though. I think the best thing about the Netherlands are the Dutch.
Damian   Monday, September 27, 2004, 06:38 GMT
If I was Dutch I think I would not be too happy with some of the expressions in the English language in which the Dutch nationality is linked to negative terms, such as:

Dutch auction....prices go down instead of up
Dutch treat......you end up paying for the so called treat
Dutch courage.....false courage usually helped by alcohol
Dutch rise...a pay rise that does not benefit you in the end
Dutch uncle....a person who constantly criticises you
Double Dutch....unintelligible language or gibberish


It seems very unfair to me....I wonder who coined these negative phrases in the first place as I don't believe they are justified.
Easterner   Monday, September 27, 2004, 07:00 GMT
Damian, I think this is at least partly due to the sea rivalry between Britain and The Netherlands in the 17th century. But having worked with Dutch people for some years as part of my job, I know they have quite an "expertise" at making money (in all senses, "take it as ye wille"). Nevertheless, I don't subscribe to those stereotypes... But there are equally unjustified stereotypes about Scotttish people, aren't they? Well, they definitely don't work for me - a country that has given birth to Burns and many ingenious inventors (I mean James Watt, but also Bell and Fleming, if I'm not mistaken) can't be such a bad place to live. :-)
Damian   Monday, September 27, 2004, 07:14 GMT
Easterner:

Thanks for that interesting response. I suppose all nationalities have stereotypes, as do the Scots as you say...mostly about our ALLEGED reputation for being tightfisted. Hey, it's unjustified that's all! When they have street collections in Aberdeen it's usually a wet day, for instance...as simple as that. It's nothing to do with being mean....just careful with money. Next time you're in Edinburgh I'll buy you a drink, nae doot.
Easterner   Monday, September 27, 2004, 23:50 GMT
Damian, I'll count on that. ;-) I personally couldn't imagine you as being tightfisted... "Nae doot" sounds good by the way, I like those long vowels in Scots. Could you mention some online source where authentic Scots is actually spoken? (A remark: I still know this thread is about Dutch, but the Dutch were the radical protesters objecting to the wasting of money in Scotland, weren't they?) ;-)
Easterner   Monday, September 27, 2004, 23:52 GMT
This last comment of mine serves to illustrate the discreet charm of certain well-established stereotypes. :-)
Kees   Tuesday, September 28, 2004, 19:07 GMT
Answers on some questions

To Maya l'abeille
First: There are many dialects in Dutch, many are like Platt(deutsch) (East, some them are Twents and Stellingwerfs) and like Flemish (South, Brabants and Limburgs). In the province of Friesland an own language is spoken, Frisian. This language seems to look more like Swedish or Norwegian than like Dutch.
However, every Dutchman, even if he/she speaks a dialect, can talk perfectly Dutch and in 90% of the cases English too.

To easterner
Second: Flemish and Dutch are almost equal. They're like Britain English and American English. There are some differences in vocabulary, but Dutchmen and Flemish can speak with eachother without problems (I went to Flanders this year and I only had difficulties in Brussels, people from there do more often speak French (Wallon) than Dutch/Flemish.
Another difference is: In The Netherlands the cities are ugly and the villages are nice, in Belgium the cities are nice and the villages are ugly.
(One thing, instead of 'onderschil' you'd use 'verschil'.)

Indeed, Dutch are rather big (they're like giants compared to the Japanese, the only thing they have in common is they like to travel). However, the scandinavian people are tall as well.

Greets
Kees oude Lenferink/Old Lenford(EN)/Vieux Lenferinque(FR)/Viejo Lenveringuo(ES)/Alte Lenfrink(DE)/Gammal Lenfersson(SW a.o.)
Tremmert   Tuesday, September 28, 2004, 20:18 GMT
I've heard that Vlaams is the closest language to Afrikaans.
Adam   Wednesday, September 29, 2004, 11:57 GMT
They speak Dutch in some Carribean countries such as Netherlands Antilles, and in some parts of the US.
Adam   Wednesday, September 29, 2004, 12:02 GMT
"If I was Dutch I think I would not be too happy with some of the expressions in the English language in which the Dutch nationality is linked to negative terms, such as:

Dutch auction....prices go down instead of up
Dutch treat......you end up paying for the so called treat
Dutch courage.....false courage usually helped by alcohol
Dutch rise...a pay rise that does not benefit you in the end
Dutch uncle....a person who constantly criticises you
Double Dutch....unintelligible language or gibberish


It seems very unfair to me....I wonder who coined these negative phrases in the first place as I don't believe they are justified."

Foreigners do the same thing with the English language, as we do with the Dutch or any other language.

In France, the nickname for a woman's period, when she bleeds, is "Les anglais ont debarque", which means "The English have arrived."
Adam   Wednesday, September 29, 2004, 12:11 GMT
Germans called cockroaches "Frenchmen"; the French call lice "Spaniards"; Italians and Norwegians talk about "departing like an Englishman"; Germans talk of "running like a Dutchman"; Italians call syphilis "the French disease"; French and Italians call con games "American swindle"; Belgian taxi drivers call a poor tipper "un anglais". To be bored to death in French is "etre de Birmingham", literally "To be from Birmingham".
Jordi   Wednesday, September 29, 2004, 12:19 GMT
A great all time classic is "capote anglaise" in French and "Frenchy" in English both meaning a condom (rubber).