Putting tenses together

Shun   Saturday, November 13, 2004, 15:50 GMT
Hello,

I have got a problem in putting tenses together.

We know that when there is 'Yesterday/Last Week/etc.' in the sentence, we shall take Simple Past:
Ex1: Yesterday we went to a department store.

We have also been told that, if an action happened in the past, but has an effect in the present, we use Present Perfect:
Ex2: We have bought many things. (We still have them in our home.)
These are the usual explanation for the two tenses.

Then shall we put them together? as in:
Ex3: "Yesterday we went to a store department. We have bought many things."
Nevertheless, it seems to me that Ex3 doesn't sound alright. Are there some other rules controlling the choice of tenses? Is there something we are missing?

Your opinion is welcome.

Shun
Jim   Monday, November 15, 2004, 00:19 GMT
Ex4 "Yesterday we went to a store department. We bought many things."

Use this one rather than Ex3 because, although the second sentence doesn't contain "yesterday", it's still refering to that time.
Mxsmanic   Monday, November 15, 2004, 04:07 GMT
It's usually best not to mix tenses; if one sentence uses the past simple, then another sentence referring to the same action or time period should also use the past simple. Using a different tense implies a contrast between the two.

In this case, if you use the present perfect in the second sentence, it sounds like you've bought something _since_ you went to the store (and indeed, as you can see, I've used the same combination of tenses here, automatically, for precisely that reason).
Steve K   Monday, November 15, 2004, 04:21 GMT
Read and listen to a lot of English. Train yourself to be observant of the language focusing on phrases. Write and have your writing corrected.When you speak and write you will feel when you are uncertain about the tense and that will send you back to observing the language. Soon your accuracy will imrove, including the use of tenses.

There are too many rules to learn to attempt to achieve accuracy through learning rules.
Shun   Monday, November 15, 2004, 07:06 GMT
Steve K,

You mean there are some rules important that grammar books would not tell us? Would you point out a few to us generously?

Do people know that tenses are used to tell the time relation between sentences?

In an orphan sentence like the following one, it is useless to talk about the tense:
Ex: They go to school together.
== The tense is unmarked and cannot be seen here. Can you say anything about the tense at all?
Jim   Monday, November 15, 2004, 07:14 GMT
What orphan sentence? "They go to school together." The verb "go" is in the present tense. We use sentences like this to talk about regular actions. The only way that you could say that the tense cannot be seen in that sentence is if you first turn the computer screen off.
Rita   Monday, November 15, 2004, 07:32 GMT
This is past tense.
Jim   Monday, November 15, 2004, 08:05 GMT
What is past tense, Rita?
Steve K   Monday, November 15, 2004, 14:44 GMT
Shun,

You make no sense. I do not know if it is a language issue.
Shun   Monday, November 15, 2004, 18:42 GMT
Ex5 "Last week we went to a store department. We bought many things. I have recommended to Ms B."

It seems the Present Perfect is correct now? But why?
Steve K   Monday, November 15, 2004, 21:54 GMT
If it seems correct to you, use it. It is when you ask why you get into trouble. Asking why is a form of resisting or challenging the new language. Just accept it and get used to it.
Shun   Tuesday, November 16, 2004, 12:03 GMT
OK, I don't ask WHY.

Ex5 "Last week we went to a store department. We bought many things. I have recommended to Ms B."

It seems the Present Perfect is correct now? Should we discuss about it?

Can you name some reason for the Present Perfect here now?
Steve K   Tuesday, November 16, 2004, 13:21 GMT
No reason. But you need an "it". "I have recommended it to Ms. B." Now forget the reasons. Do you thing about which foot to put forward when you walk? Do you look for reasons when you speak your native language? Just focus on communicating in the language and rely on your feel for the language which will grow gradually. You cannot rush it. Grammar is no shortcut. Research has shown that grammar instruction does not help people to speak better.

Read the following, from a long time ago, and think about it.

"Fish traps exist to capture fish.
Once you've got the fish you can forget the trap.
Rabbit snares exist to capture rabbits.
Once you've got the rabbit you can forget the snare.
Words exist to capture meaning.
Once you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
I'd like to have a word with him!"

– Zhuangzi, Chinese Daoist philosopher, 4th century BC
Steve K   Tuesday, November 16, 2004, 13:42 GMT
Think and not thing in the first line. Soirry for the typo.
Shun   Tuesday, November 16, 2004, 17:56 GMT
Just as I expected. English native speakers know the present perfect is OK:

Ex5 "Last week we went to a store department. We bought many things. I have recommended to Ms B."

But they cannot explain why it is OK.