Is the following a finish or not?
“She has visited Ocean Park for three times since 1987.”
As I am not visiting now, it seems to be a finish. But people think that, with Since, it is a continuity. This confuses me.
The sentence should be, 'She has visited ocean park three times since 1987.'
That sentence means that she has visited Ocean Park 3 times between 1987 and the present.
It means that she still visits there.
This sentence means that she has visited Ocean Park at three indefinite points of time. The emphasis is on the fact that it has happened sometime, and not on when the visits took place. The Present Perfect can also be used to express this. The time period stretches from 1987 up to the present, therefore it is "incomplete" or "unfinished", even if the three visits were completed. And yes, Adam's vesion is the right one.
> The emphasis is on the fact that
> it has happened sometime, and not
> on when the visits took place.
Of course the emphasis is on WHEN, that is, since 1987. If without it, it is a finish: She has visited Ocean Park three times.
> That sentence means that she has visited
> Ocean Park 3 times between 1987 and the present.
Of course I know of this. But is it a finish or not? Maybe we claim we don't know it is a finish or not. Is this OK?
The actions are finished, but we don't stress that here. The stress is on the fact that there were three visits from a point of time in the past up to now, and we don't know exactly when, or we are not interested in this. If we say "She visited Ocean Park in 1987", it is a completed action with a definite time. With the present perfect, there are more completed actions and an indefinite time, we just indicate what period we are speaking about. It is like pearls on a thread: the pearls are "completed", but it doesn't matter where they are on a thread - what matters is the length of the thread.
You can also say: in the sentence given as an example, finished actions are linked together from a perspective in the present. The function of "since" is to indicate the starting point of the period under observation, like a knot on the thread, used as a fastening. :-) It has not much to do with the isolated actions, only the period as a whole.
> there were three visits from a point of
> time in the past up to now, and we don't
> know EXACTLY WHEN, or we are not
> interested in this.
Actually I have thought of your argument of stressing. We stress this and ignore that.
But can't you see? We know EXACTLY WHEN: "since 1987". We cannot ignore this time expression, can we? It is because of Since that we use Present Perfect, and in your words, "link them together (how?) from a perspective in the present". So how can we say we don't stress on, or not interested in, the time?
What I have taken from your saying is, the actions are finished, but the time is up to now. However, that is why we find it is hard to put them together in a sentence. They just don't match.
I am sorry, but it is still confusing, at least to me, perhaps me alone. If someone has understood, please tell me what I have missed.