The ''oo'' in ''loose'' and ''moose''

For me, the ''oo'' sound in ''loose'' is different from the ''oo'' sound in ''moose'' and the words don't rhyme i.e. [lVUS] and [mus] (In X-sampa) but the Cambridge dictionary says that they rhyme. Do any of you pronounce ''loose'' and ''moose'' to rhyme?

''moose'' and ''loose'' rhyme for me i.e. [mu:s] and [lu:s].

Where are you from, Freeman?

They rhyme for me.

''They rhyme for me.''

Jim, do you pronounce them both with [VU] or both with [u] (in-x-Sampa)

I can't get hold of SAMPA @ the moment but the vowel would be IPA's crossed "u" (central rounded close) & long.

I'm from the US and they rhyme for me.

''I can't get hold of SAMPA @ the moment but the vowel would be IPA's crossed "u" (central rounded close) & long.''

Oh, interesting. That's different from the pronunciation of the ''oo'' vowel phoneme in ''loose'' in Scotland and I think you're from Australia, right? In my Scottish accent the vowel sound in ''loose'' is a short vowel [u] and the vowel sound in ''moose'' is a diphthong [VU].

''the vowel would be IPA's crossed "u" (central rounded close) & long.''

I have that sound in my accent but it's a different phoneme though, not the phoneme in the word ''loose''.

I was just wondering, Is there any way that X-Sampa could be made into a phonemic alphabet for English? There is Tom's chart but Tom's chart doesn't include all of the phonemes in my Scottish accent and so it wouldn't be a very good thing to use to shew phonemic transcriptions in my accent. X-sampa would be better.

''Where are you from, Freeman?''

I'm from Scotland.

You could base a phonemic alphabet for English on X-SAMPA if you wanted. I am from Australia, yes.

In Toronto there used to be a bar called the Loose Moose and it rhymed. Although not always around closing time.

The OO in words like "moose", "loose" or "choose" represents a back u sound . There is another kind of back u sound written like an upside down letter 'm' in the international phonetic alphabet (see IPA) . It is found in Korean, Japanese, Turkish and even some dialects of Irish and Scottish Gaelic . I have heard it even in the accents of some Koreans and Japanese even when they speak English. However, I have never heard anything but the first back u sound in English for pronouncing these words.

There is a central u sound like the OO in "look" and "book" which sometimes appears in the pronunciations of ROOF ; HOOF and their plurals ROOFS; ROOVES / HOOFS / HOOVES . I think that most of you have heard an English speaker or two that pronounces it this way before . For just a few of you, it may even be your native pronunciation.

Quote-''The OO in words like "moose", "loose" or "choose" represents a back u sound . There is another kind of back u sound written like an upside down letter 'm' in the international phonetic alphabet (see IPA) . It is found in Korean, Japanese, Turkish and even some dialects of Irish and Scottish Gaelic . I have heard it even in the accents of some Koreans and Japanese even when they speak English. However, I have never heard anything but the first back u sound in English for pronouncing these words.''

For me the vowel sound in ''moose'', and ''choose'' is the first back ''u'' sound you were describing, in X-sampa [u]. The vowel sound in ''loose'' is a diphthong [VU] (in X-sampa). I think the distinction between the ''oo'' in ''moose'' and the ''oo'' in ''loose'' is mainly restricted to Scotland probably.

For me, ''Loose Moose'' wouldn't rhyme.

I don't mean to call you wrong, Brennus, just filling in some details. Whilst the "oo" in "moose", "loose" and "choose" may represent a back vowel in RP and midwestern US English I don't believe that I was wrong to say that I pronounce it as a central vowel. If the following charts are anything to go by, this is how it's pronounced in AusE and NZE.

http://www.ling.mq.edu.au/units/ling210-901/phonetics/vowelgraphs/AusE_Monophthongs.html

http://www.ling.mq.edu.au/units/ling210-901/phonetics/vowelgraphs/NZE_Monophthongs.html

Jim, I think that pronouncing the ''oo'' in ''moose'' as a central vowel is mainly restricted to Australia and New Zealand (and maybe South Africa too.). Here in Scotland and over in England, Wales, Ireland, Canada and America it's always pronounced as a back vowel.

That may be but I think I recall reading otherwise somewhere.