Proto Germanic / Germanic Languages Similarities

The Swedish boy   Monday, March 21, 2005, 13:50 GMT
Hello everyone!
I have pondered about 2 things. The first one is about the expression "my self" becouse in Swedish we say "mig själv" so I thnik the expressions are related to each other , and if someone know something about it then it´s only to write it on this page.
The second one was abuot the word thing. I think that word is a Germanic word, becouse thing must be related to the German word "ding" and the Scandinavian word "ting". I can not Dutch but I think it´s quite the same. Is´nt that true, that in some words you can substitute (sometimes) a d to a t and then you have the same word in another related language?
Jo   Monday, March 21, 2005, 17:36 GMT
«It's highly unlikely Dutch celts ( which DIDN'T EXCIST , you mean germanics) helped build Hadrians wall . »

Apparently thousands of shoes were found by the Hadrian wall and the archeologists are sure they belonged to the Bataven.
The Bataven were 'gastarbeiders' ( guestworkers) in those days.
How come the archeologists are that sure, I don't know but I think a specific Dutch smell may have lingered on.
Jo   Monday, March 21, 2005, 17:52 GMT
«Jo,(idiot) Lopik lies arounnd Utrecht.Why are you brabbeling about drente and gelderland?! Sander»

Around Utrecht you mean "er rond om heen?"
Dear Sander, what is in the history books is not that the Bataven crossed the Rhine : they arrived by floating down the Rhine and entered by Lopik.
To go anywhere north of the 'big rivers', say you wanted to visit your mother-in-law at the Canninefaten , who lived in the Dunes on Hollands westcoast , you could just put on your walking shoes and walk there from somewhere in Saksen all the way without crossing the river Rhine.
Of course your feet might have gotten a bit smelly after such a long stroll
but thanks to that thousands of years later the specific dutch cheesy smell was recognized again at the Adrian wall.
!   Monday, March 21, 2005, 17:53 GMT
Maybe the smell of moldy cheese ...
Jo   Monday, March 21, 2005, 17:54 GMT
«It's highly unlikely Dutch celts ( which DIDN'T EXCIST , you mean germanics) helped build Hadrians wall . »

Apparently thousands of shoes were found by the Hadrian wall and the archeologists are sure they belonged to the Bataven.
The Bataven were 'gastarbeiders' ( guestworkers) in those days.
How come the archeologists are that sure, I don't know but I think a specific Dutch smell may have lingered on.
Sander   Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 14:36 GMT
"JO",

=>Dear Sander, what is in the history books is not that the Bataven crossed the Rhine : they arrived by floating down the Rhine and entered by Lopik.<=

How can you float down the rhine to the center of the Netherlands and only then enter the Netherlands?????Also that they "entered" by lopik?It could have been everywhere,its just that they found a archeological site there.
Lazar   Wednesday, March 23, 2005, 21:36 GMT
>Shoes ? isn't that a word derived from french?

You can tell that "shoe" is a Germanic word because it has an archaic Germanic plural form "shoon".
Sander   Thursday, March 24, 2005, 14:39 GMT
Yes but you could also say its based on chaussures...maybe its become a hybrid ?!
Tyfone   Thursday, March 24, 2005, 17:50 GMT
I think thats it,English has a lot of that kind of words...
DJW   Friday, March 25, 2005, 04:33 GMT
Yes that is definitely Old Dutch, if there is such a thing, not Old English. I was under the impression that Middle Dutch emerged from Old Low German. Was Old Dutch the same as Old Low German?
Sander   Friday, March 25, 2005, 08:55 GMT
DJW,

No,Old Dutch is the "ancestor" of Old English.

=> Was Old Dutch the same as Old Low German? <=

If you consider low-saxon to be old dutch..then yeah.

About the shoe thing,

In Dutch we say "schoen",now this might look the same but the pronouncation is totally different.First the "Sch" (germans are know to can't make this sound) sound comes from the troath (Unique sound).
And then at the end we very clearly pronounce the "N".
DJW   Friday, March 25, 2005, 11:50 GMT
Sander, you appear to be extemporising on the subject.
Sander   Friday, March 25, 2005, 13:30 GMT
extemporising? Like in improvizing?
Are you claiming that I make things up ?
arthur   Friday, March 25, 2005, 17:41 GMT
As far as I know....

Old English and Frisian belongs to the inguavonian dialects.
Old Dutch comes from "Nederfrankisch" (Low Frankish)
and Twents (a dialect in the eastcorner of the Netherlands)
comes from "Nedersaksisch" (Low Saxon)
Nedersaksisch and Nederfrankisch are subgroups of "Nederduits"
(old low german) . The Inguavonian group can also be shared
under old low German, but it's also considered as a seperate
group.

The dialects in the north of germany "plat duuts" are merely
low saxon and eastern Low German.

Modern dutch is highly influenced by a low frankish dialect
which was spoken in holland, the west of the Netherlands.

Greetings, arthur
!   Friday, March 25, 2005, 17:55 GMT
Old english and old dutch were most certainly mutually intelligible !