Why don't people like Russian?

Maybe because Russia lost its power it used to have. In ex-Yugoslavia Russian was taught in many schools, but now, at least here in Bosnia, everyone just learns English.

Anyway, I just wanted to find out is it possible to stop this hatred towards the Russian language? Many people hate the language because they associate it with Russia's agression. Go to former Czecholsovakia, try to speak Russian to them and they will immediately remember some not-so-nice things Russia did to them. That's just one example. Anyway, politics aside, is it possible to dissociate the Russian language from all these things or not? I think nobody hates English language because of the nasty things the Brits and Americas have done in the past / ar still doing at the present...

Maybe that's because English is still regarded as a language of the free world, no matter what US has done or is doing, while Russian is associated with spreading oppression, dictatorship, communism etc. to its neigbour countries.

I do not think this article fairly describes the situation with the Russian language on the former Soviet space. That is done very subtle through choosing some facts and not showing other facts, or through interpretation of them. For example, the author wrote: "some countries, like Latvia, have passed discriminatory laws against those who speak it [Russian]." To my best knowledge, there is no discriminatory laws against Russian speakers in Latvian but there are laws against those who do not speak Latvian. If you speak Russian as your first language but you also know Latvian well then there is no problem. On the other hand, if you speak any language -- German, French, Lithuanian, or whatever, but you do not speak Latvian, then you are in trouble.

Another example, you could see photos of street name boards lying in dirt. I guess, these photos are supposed to show disrespect to the Russian language on the former Soviet territories, but ironically these boards are NOT written in Russian.

Then he cited Vladimir Neroznyak: "If before more than 90 percent of the people in the Soviet territories spoke Russian, now less than half do." Any reasonable person would be ask how come that only in 15 years the number of those who know Russian reduced twice. Even if we suppose that no one from young generation learns Russian, then it should take much more time unless there was a baby boom over there. But there is no evidence of any baby boom on the ex-soviet space. And in former Soviet Republic, now independent countries, there are many Russians living there, and their children still speak Russian as their first language. Besides the Russian language is an official language in Belorussian, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan; and they are not small countries. So how come that the total number of those who know Russian reduced twice in only 15 years? There is no doubt that this number has reduced significantly, but one would want to twist it to make it look even smaller than it is really is?

The author continues: "Russian is under assault even within Russia itself. As many as 10,000 foreign words, such as bucksi, voucher, biznesmen and bizneslunch, have entered the language within the past decade." I do not know who and how count these, but I am sure that I heard `bucksi' and `biznesmen' more than 15 years ago, so it is not "within the past decade." In fact, the idea that these words can endanger the Russian language is ridiculous. There are many words that came to Russian in past, particularly, in the 19 century; but in the same time, it was the Gold Age of Russian literature. I do not think that these language-purity laws will do any good for the language or anyone but bureaucrats, who will decide how language should be used and money spend. For them, it is just a good way to pocket more money pretending that they saving something.

The Russian language will not disappear any time soon, but there are some other languages that probably will. The Russian Federation is a homeland for native speakers of 100 languages (accordingly SIL Ethnologue). 80% of the population are native speakers of Russian, and most of remaining 20% are belong to about half a dozen other languages. That means that the other 90 languages have very small number of native speakers; in fact, 9 of them are very close to extinction right now. Think about it, these languages has existed on this territory for thousands years and may disappear. So what are people like Mr. Neroznyak going to do about it? The answer is nothing. They have found himself a perfect job of "saving" the Russian language -- it is better paid and there is no risk that the language can disappear, so you can do nothing but twist statistics. That is a perfect job for bureaucrats.


Vytenis,

>>>English has become sort of dissociated from the great imperialistic powers that have spread this language worldwide. Maybe because there are so many non-native speakers of English worldwide and it is no longer regarded as a symbol of British or American imperializm. Is there any chance that Russian can become similarly dissociated?<<<

There is always a chance but not unless some politics in Russia stop using the Russian language as a tool for unduly influence on other states. There are nationalists on both sides of this conflict and that makes very difficult to solve it. As to those purist laws mentioned in the article, I believe that is a step in the wrong direction and can make things only worse.


Travis,

>>> it's a rather common opinion around here, in the US, that "maybe the Soviet Union, for all that was wrong with it, wasn't so bad after all; while it may have been theoretically more oppressive than the Russia of today (although Putin is no democrat at all), it did afford significant better standards of living to its population as a whole than the Russia of today does". <<<

People tend to forget the difficulties of the past and more focus on the current problem. Probably it is not bad, but that does not their comparision correct. The life in the USSR was not so good and easy as some people may say now. The last ten years of its existance, the standard of living in the USSR was falling dramatically, which mostly determined its collapse. After that, we went through very difficult years in the last decade of the 20th century, but now the standard of living improves and I believe we already live better than in the last ten years of the Soviet Union. There are still a lot of economical problems but things are getting better now. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same about political situation in Russia. Putin has created a system with concentration too much power in hands of one person; and that spells trouble in the future. Maybe he has had good intentions doing so, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Dwayne,
>>>To my best knowledge, there is no discriminatory laws against Russian speakers in Latvia but there are laws against those who do not speak Latvian. If you speak Russian as your first language but you also know Latvian well then there is no problem. On the other hand, if you speak any language -- German, French, Lithuanian, or whatever, but you do not speak Latvian, then you are in trouble. <<<

Just want to add some facts to this. If you are Russian, living in Latvia from your birth, why government forbids education in your native language. It was a surge of protest last summer, when Russian-speaking schools were going to be reversed to lessons only in Latvian language.

>>>Another example, you could see photos of street name boards lying in dirt. I guess, these photos are supposed to show disrespect to the Russian language on the former Soviet territories, but ironically these boards are NOT written in Russian.<<<
These street boards are a strange example for this article. The upper board contains clearly Russian word KpacHaR (red), while the nether one, hanging awry is likely Belorussian and means 'red square'.

>>>"If before more than 90 percent of the people in the Soviet territories spoke Russian, now less than half do." Any reasonable person would be ask how come that only in 15 years the number of those who know Russian reduced twice<<<
Well, how long does it take to forget language without practice?
Interestingly, during Chechen wartime the young generation of the Chechens wasn't speaking Russian at all and some teenagers have to learn it from scratch now. I am not sure their schools worked that time.

>>>The Russian Federation is a homeland for native speakers of 100 languages (accordingly SIL Ethnologue). <<<
According to the latest census there are about 200 nationalities. And the previous census showed that the number of nationalities has a slight increase. (The hobbits and elves doesn't count.) Though, they may be called dialects, I guess.

>>> the other 90 languages have very small number of native speakers; in fact, 9 of them are very close to extinction right now. Think about it, these languages has existed on this territory for thousands years and may disappear<<<
I think it just reflects the fact that the whole population of Russian Federation grows down (as practically in all developed countries). Though, if your lifestyle is still hunting, gathering and herding deers you don't really care.

>>>The life in the USSR was not so good and easy as some people may say now. The last ten years of its existance, the standard of living in the USSR was falling dramatically, which mostly determined its collapse<<<

I don't like "mostly" in this phrase. If the state of economy was the main factor of Soviet Union collapse, why not Russian Federation collapse?

>>>Putin has created a system with concentration too much power in hands of one person; and that spells trouble in the future. Maybe he has had good intentions doing so, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions<<<

If you guys still think there is some connection between democratic values and economical boom, just look at China !!!
I don't care who is power this time, if I have my paunch well-stuffed with food and I never get frozen through the long white Russian winter, which is at the end already!

Putin's rating here is about 70%, I don't remember who ever had such a rating (maybe only Stalin on the 9th of May in 1945 year).
And the problem I see about Putin is only one, when he resigns the quality of power will still go on dependence on the personality of the future ruler of Russia.

By the way, I wasn't necessarily saying that I hold that particular view, just that it's widespread amongst others here, who witnessed both the economic collapse in Russia, and the Balkan Wars (I remember my parents commenting on how at least when Tito was around, the Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians weren't trying to kill each other), from outside, *not* from inside.

Vytenis,

What the Russians think about the foreigners who speak russian?
I remember that once I was in Saint Petersburg as a tourist and some people thought I came from Caucasus (I don't know russian). i think that if i knew russian they would have thought i was chechen.

Vincent,

I think most of them would react very positively if you tried and spoke their language, however badly...

Soviet Union has been in a North-Korea type isoplation from the world for too long. And this includes linguistic isolation too... Unfortunately...

My experience was that people were very encouraging toward foreigners who spoke Russian, even if it was only a few words. I was there in 1988, 1990 and 1991.

Perhaps I should say people were encouraging to me. The people I ran into loved the English language and were very friendly toward Americans. I don't know whether they'd have been as friendly toward people from other foreign countries.

Mishka,

>>> If you are Russian, living in Latvia from your birth, why government forbids education in your native language. <<<
Please correct me if I wrong, but as far as I know:
1. There is no any specific law against the Russian language.
2. The restriction you are talking about is to use Latvian, which is the only official language of this country, in schools that exist on the government money. Open your private school and you can choose any language whatever you want.

Besides, it may be a good thing for those whose native language is not Latvian, because they will acquire some fluence in it. Of course, those who emigrate to Latvia now and are older than 12 year old may need a bilingual education at least for a few years. But as far as I know, there is no many new emigrants from Russia.

>>> Well, how long does it take to forget language without practice? <<< Depends on how good you know the language, how long you learn it, whether you completely isolated from that language or not, etc... So it is difficult to tell any specific number, but if you went through all years of school studying almost all subjects in Russia, you are not going to forget it fast if ever. The years between 7 and 12 are the best for acquiring language. Besides, there is no full isolation from the Russian language...

>>> Interestingly, during Chechen wartime the young generation of the Chechens wasn't speaking Russian at all and some teenagers have to learn it from scratch now. <<<
Naturally, they do not know Russian. Even in the soviet times, some people from rural areas of Chechia did not Russian well. The only place where they learned it was school. After schools were destroyed and most Russian population left Chechnya trying to escape the war, you hardly can expect the different outcome.

>>> I don't like "mostly" in this phrase. If the state of economy was the main factor of Soviet Union collapse, why not Russian Federation collapse? <<<

Like you or not, but the bad state of economic was the main cause leading to the collapse of the USSR. Now do you ask me why the Russian Federation did not fall apart? Well, why should they? After all, about 80% of population is ethnically Russians; there was no major national movement for independence anywhere but Chechnya. Besides, falling Russia apart was considered as very dangerous development of events by most leading industrialized nations. So the Russian goverment has received significant economical and political support to prevent this development of events. On the other hand, if the Communists riot in 1993 was not suppresed and resulted in a civil war, then some other Russian territories would probably declare their independence. So, as physicists say, energy that can break apart an atom may be not enough to break apart an atom.

>>> If you guys still think there is some connection between democratic values and economical boom, just look at China !!! <<<
I do not see anothing to be amused about. Its current economic growth can appear impressive, but so far China mostly enjoys a free ride. Cheap but good qualified workforce is the main cause of it, but that is not constant advantage. And so far I do not see how China can provide the living standard close to the EU or the US. I mean it is possible in some isolated places but not in China as the whole. IIRC, GDP per capital is No. 110 in the world. Russia does much better in this respect.

>>>I don't care who is power this time, if I have my paunch well-stuffed with food and I never get frozen through the long white Russian winter, which is at the end already!<<<
Unfortuantely, this attitude does not surprise me anymore -- too many think in that way nowadays. But if you do not care about the future then the future will take about you in the way you may not like at all. You may think that politics is not important, but one day it will affect you directly so you'll be no longer able to deny the reality. If you don't believe me, then ask the older generation of Russian. When they were young, they work hard and hoped about happy future and good retirement, but they went through very difficult years in 1990s and stillmany of them hardly have money to live on. Besides they are dozens million who were murdered by the soviet regime or spent their best years in prison for nothing. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

>>> Putin's rating here is about 70%, I don't remember who ever had such a rating (maybe only Stalin on the 9th of May in 1945 year). <<<
I think Stalin has higher rating and not only one day. I think it is not difficult to achieve if mass media is under your control. Of course, eventually the truth will make its way but that may take some time...

>>> And the problem I see about Putin is only one, when he resigns the quality of power will still go on dependence on the personality of the future ruler of Russia. <<<
You can not build a stable system that would be based solely on good willingness of one person. It's going to screw up early or later.


Vincent,

>>> What the Russians think about the foreigners who speak russian? <<<
It is difficult to tell what all Russians think, but in general they are very positive and encouraging about it, especially if you are a native speaker of English :)
Even if you can say a few words, it is always perceived as showing respect to the Russian culture and its people.

Deborah,
>>>My experience was that people were very encouraging toward foreigners who spoke Russian, even if it was only a few words. I was there in 1988, 1990 and 1991.<<<
When the iron curtain fell, all the foreigners who came to the SU were some kind of the living gods. The Russians were ready to study foreign languages even at the sessions of new-fangled church priests from abroad. I did it myself. I learned Korean, English and Japanese at odd times of my boyhood :).

>>>Perhaps I should say people were encouraging to me. The people I ran into loved the English language and were very friendly toward Americans. I don't know whether they'd have been as friendly toward people from other foreign countries.<<<
Well, if I ever come to make a rating list of my favourite nations, the Americans would be at the top. Why? I can't say I adore America, but still I am highly interested in everything what's going on there and this is not a toadying or else. I am looking for gems in American culture and I find them. My new attraction is jazz. You don't mean a thing, if you ain't got a swing.

Dwayne,
>>>Please correct me if I wrong, but as far as I know:
1. There is no any specific law against the Russian language.
2. The restriction you are talking about is to use Latvian, which is the only official language of this country, in schools that exist on the government money. Open your private school and you can choose any language whatever you want.<<<


1. If you read Russian, try this: http://sava011.narod.ru/
There is an excerp:
23, January 2004 06:00

The Seim approved of ammendments to the law on education according to which all the subjects of the 10th grade at the national minorities schools are going to be taught in the state language, with exception to national language and the subjects related to national identity and culture.

Another source (not about education, though)
http://www.otechestvo.org.ua/vesti/20053/v1405.htm

The majority of the Russian inhabbitants of Latvia could not take part in the municipal elections yesterday. Constantly living in Latvia, they, however, have no Latvian citizenship. As the head of Russian Duma Konstantin Usachev said, municipal elections in Latvia are impossible to regard as being correspondent to international norms.

2. Well, if the 30% of population of Latvia is Russian and they pay taxes like their fellow citizens, why shoudn't Latvia have 30% of ethnical Russian schools or 30% of the education timing for the subjects in Russian?

the head of Russian Duma>>>the head of committee of international affairs of Russian Duma