Andre from South Africa presents: "The Afrikaner Language Thread"

If you have questions about languages in South Africa or Afrikaans in particular....YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!!!

Finnally some thing to match your ego ,LOL

No,but serious,on the other topic it suprises me how much people want to know something about Afrikaans or another language spoken in South-Africa....So ask as much as you can...

I would suggest the information was in English. First question. When the Dutch are passed on Afrikaans television (sports, politics, etc.) are they dubbed? Are they perfectly understood? What happens when the Afrikaans are passed on Dutch or Flemish television?
Do many Afrikaans also learn Dutch? Do you need to learn Dutch to read the great Dutch literature of the past? Do lots of Afrikaans have a holiday in the Netherlands (or Flanders) and do lots of European Dutch speakers visit South Africa?
Is there any cultural movement in South Africa to reunite Afrikaans with Dutch (respecting, of course, variety)?

Why Sander my very own forum!! I...I don't know what to say (choke)

Anyway, yes, the many questions did surprise me too.

Jordi

We don't have any Dutch programmes on TV here (don't know why) did have one set in a hospital as well as a comedy show a few years ago. They were dubbed into Afrikaans (as are all foreign language programmes such as German and French)
Very very Afrikaans speakers learn Dutch, partly because we can already understand it, partly because there is not a strong need to use it.
We can read Dutch literature without learning the language, in fact at school and university Dutch literature is studied as part of the Afrikaans course.
The Netherlands (and Flanders) is a popular destination for Afrikaans speakers, but usually as part of a tour of Europe.
The Dutch immigrant community is one of the biggest in SA, and we do get a lot of Dutch visitors.
I'm not sure what you mean with the last question. The two will never be reunited, but in recent years mutual interest has grown, and there are attempts to strenghten ties. Afrikaans artists have started to perform there, and Dutch and Flemish artists have appeared here, the two most popular being Stef Bos and Dana Winner

=>They were dubbed into Afrikaans (as are all foreign language programmes such as German and French<=

Really ? I would have thought you subtitle them...

Eh help me,how many people live in SA? 25 million?

Sander

no we dub them subtitles are only used in local programmes for the sake of the hearing impaired

About 40 million

and how is this devided?

Black-White I mean...

about 80% black 10% white rest coloured and asian

Thanks for the replies. I'm just trying to sort out the linguistic relationship between Afrikaans and Dutch. After all it would seem you have the only language in the world bearing the name of a continent. It's a if the Americans had called English "American" having evolved into a different language.

Are there "class" differences in Afrikaans? For instance, I imagine you have "regional" or "dialectal" Afrikaans and that you will be able to tell the difference between coast and inland, for example. Regarding "cultivated" or "literary" Afrikaans, would you say it is closer to Standard European Dutch or more apart than some dialectal varieties in Afrikaans.

I can understand Afrikaans will not officialy "reunite" with Dutch (Flemish has) but do you have the same spelling and would you say more than 90% of the words are the same? Is the Afrikaans Standard Accent closer to any variety in the Netherlands or Belgium? I mean to say, which are the European Dutch speakers you find are the easiest to understand?

Regarding the Dutch who live in South Africa. Are they considered Afrikaans speakers in the official census? What does the second generation Dutch become? Afrikaans or English speakers?

You say you all understand Dutch and yet you dubb Dutch movies or programmes as if they were foreign films? From a cultural point of view: don't you feel this is a political move and wouldn't it be better the Afrikaans heard the original? Is Afrikaans spoken by the local black population different to the Afrikaans spoken by the local white population?

=>I can understand Afrikaans will not officialy "reunite" with Dutch (Flemish has) but do you have the same spelling and would you say more than 90% of the words are the same?<=


No no no!

90% of the words the same?!
same spelling the same ?!
officially reunite?!

ANDRE !!!!!!!!! WAKE UP AND PROVIDE GOOD ANWSERS!!!

Well, one thing is that Afrikaans spelling is not quite the same as Dutch spelling, considering that "ij" in Dutch has been replaced with "y". Furthermore, while the two are superficially very similar, Afrikaans has lost a lot of inflection and so on that is present in Dutch, and is also closer to West Flemish than it is to Dutch, as well.

I mean the orthographic system, that is; a lot of words have changed themselves in Afrikaans, when compared with Dutch, due to things such as elision and sound changes such as devoicing and so on.

Jordi

We have regional accents rather than dialects in afrikaans. The people in the Western Cape (Cape Town) has a distinctive accent compared to the people in the north (Johannesburg). The people in Namaqualand (a region in the Northern Cape province) have a totally different accent, with several words and sayings that you will find nowhere else

Official Afrikaans is closer to Standard Dutch than everyday spoken Afrikaans, but still distinctly different. I find Flemish and the Dutch spoken in the south of the Netherlands the easiest to understand. But far less than 90% of the words are the same, and the spelling differs a lot.

Dutch speaking immigrants are named as such in the national census. The second generation mostly become Afrikaans speaking, but some also become English speaking (depends on where they live)

TV programmes - I would love it if Dutch programmes were broadcast here in the original Dutch - however, when I say we can understand Dutch, it is still with a lot of concentration. If a programme is broadcast in Dutch, many people will struggle to follow. I don't think it's a political thing, Dutch is simply regarded as a foreign language. The accent also plays a big part, it is so vastly different that you simply don't follow what people are saying until you get used to it

Afrikaans as mother tongue is spoken by the majority of coloureds - people of mixed European and African descent. They do have (many of them, anyway) a distinctive different accent

André,

I find your information very useful. Thanks. I think even closer ties should be kept between South Africa, the Nerthelands and Belgium. I feel it is as important as to keep the relationship with Great Britain through English. That gives you two strongholds on European soil and, even for political reasons, that should be very important for your country's interests.

After all, the capital city of Europe (Brussels) has a form of Afrikaans, which is also official. I'm sure the differences between the local Brussels dialect and Standard Dutch are almost as big as Afrikaans and Standard Dutch (the local traditional Brussels dialect is also influenced by French, for example). The Flemish need the Netherlands to be able to struggle against the French language power in Europe. Obviously, the Afrikaans didn't need that.

It's strange how Dutch evolved in South Africa whilst the English settlers never adopted "another evolved" English standard. I'm sure popular English usage in South Africa could have also given a different language but I doubt the Commonwealth would have agreed. The fact that English is a world language and Dutch a regional language (in the planet) must have also helped to keep the status quo.

Although South Africa is so far away I suppose it is specially important to keep ties with Europe, specially for a part of the population living in a non-European origin continent. Ties are always stronger when they're cultural and linguistic.

Regarding the Netherlands and Flanders I feel Afrikaans literature and culture should also be in the curriculum (at least at high school and university level).

Regarding exposure to oral speech I must say that (after a few months of exposure) people in South Africa and Dutch Europe would get used to the differences. I'm convinced Dutch, Flemish and Afrikaans productions must really be interesting.

People don't remember how the British campaigned in the 1930s against "talking movies" in American English. You've only got to look at the archives to realise that they said exactly the same things you tell me now. Most of them wanted them dubbed into "RP English" because they said they couldn't understand them. 80 years later most Brits would laugh at this since they are heavily exposed to oral American English through the media. It is often said that it is more difficult for Americans to understand British varieties than for Brits, Australians or South Africans to understand American varieties. It's all a matter of exposure.

Jordi

Also read Travis's comments he is quite right (how do you do it Travis??)