Catalan language in danger?

They speak Catalan, one way or another, and saying that such are "Valencian" and "Balearic dialects of Castilian" in the long run will only help erode the position of Catalan, which has only been regained (from the low point of the Catalan in the 1800s, before the Catalan Renaissance) relatively recently, all things considered.

Muñoz, p'a ti el duro (for you the ten cents). This is becoming really quite sickening. If I continue here I might even end up asking refuge. It's even worse (you must be very young or very ignorant) when you say Valencians and Balearics say they speak "dialects of Castilian".

Franco did publish that in Spanish language books in the 1940s and you probably learnt that lesson well: El español o castellano tiene importantes dialectos: basco, gallego, catalán, valenciano y mallorquín. Bull shit (nunca mejor dicho ya que elevó la corrida de toros a categoría de "fiesta nacional")
I will follow your game:
People in Andalucía and Murcia do not consider themselves "speakers of Castilian"...
You obviously have no idea of the prestigious literature that has been produced by Valencians and Catalans since the 19th century and in Standard Catalan. You also seem to forget that Catalan (called Catalan in the Balearic Islands laws and Valencian in Valencian laws although the official Valencian Academy of the Language says it can also be called "Catalan") has been taught in both these regions in the past 25 years.

"Chloe seems to represent what happens in the rest of the state where they seem to be rather convinced they are more Spanish than we are"
Tell me where i wrote that i am more spanish than you. "Rest of the state", this clarify a lot of things.

Sorry to say that but you have a big chip on your shoulder and we all know why. You are
No se puede ir con ese victimismo a todas partes diciendo lo malos que son el resto de españoles con nosotros.

"Regarding the Catalans we didn't start a Civil War against a legally established government. As you can see Chloe proves my point. We've got to be Spanish"
You consider ERC and Companys like "The Catalans", as if they only were catalans and the rest not. History is history and everyone knows that Companys and ERC rise against a legally established government. It´s a shame the manipulation of history in Cataluña.
But is quite astonishing that you are agree with them (ERC and Companys). You say "Chloe proves my point. We've got to be Spanish"
There are mechanisms for a part of spain to go. A national Referendum ( national as Spain not Cataluña), and not a coup d´etat

If I were you, Chloe I wouldn't worry too much. Only the Spanish traditionalist right has done or has tried to do real "coup d'états". When I say Spanish, Chloe, I mean Castilian-Spanish but you don't seem to be affected by that since there is only one way one can be really Spanish and have a great literature (I've read your list of names.)
Companys spoke of "A Catalan Republic within a Federation of Iberian Peoples" ( República catalana dentro de una Federación de pueblos ibéricos.) A Federation is not Independence.
What is a shame is the manipulation of the history of Spain in Spain itself.
You can, of course, decide that since you are "el pueblo mayoritario" in Spain the rest must stay with you, whether they choose to do that or not. After all you would have to be the natural "owners" of the country. You will always have a majority of the votes and many more have settled with the "historic nations" affected. I can assure you there will never be anything unbearable on my shoulders. I love my family and my country too much for that.

Jordi

All your posts ooze hate towards what you consider "the rest of the state" or "spanish".

"Companys spoke of "A Catalan Republic within a Federation of Iberian Peoples" ( República catalana dentro de una Federación de pueblos ibéricos.) A Federation is not Independence."

He didn´t spoke of that, he declared on his own initiative without the consent of the legally established government a state apart.

The aforementioned even dared to fire a spanish flag in the hall town of Barcelona. A great democrat , yes sir!.

Breaking news

PSC ( branch of PSOE and in the regional government in catalonia) want to define in the new statute catalonia like a nation and obligate to know the catalonian language to everyone living in catalonia. Also stablish Catalan like the language of normal use and preferential in the public institutions.
Catalonian and Spanish are coofficial in this part of Spain. So a spaniard of other region of spain is going to be obligated to learn catalan. Like in the Franco era but quite the opposite.

A better title for this thread
Is Spanish language in danger in Catalonia?

I trust the rest of posters will be able to read my messages in a clear way since hate has never been in my mind when I have written my long commented messages. I've only complained about Castilian-speakers who expect me to forget who I am and where I'm from. I'm sure I love Spain at least as much as you do.
What you do does have a name but I won't bother. I've had to change several informations you've given in your threads. You didn't even know Borrell was never the official candidate in that campaign and the only Hispanic literature you know in the Castilian one. That is enough for you to say it's the best. You even misunderstood a quotation from a Spanish newspaper and expected it was mine.
My quote of Companys (1931) is literal and I'm sorry for you.
Your English is getting worse as you get more angry.
The fact is people like you never complained once in the Franco era and the "language of normal and preferential use" means there is another language that can also be used but that the "majority territorial language", which also happens to be "the historic language of a territory" must have a special statute.
I can assure you Spanish is in no danger whatsoever in Catalonia.
Have a good day,

Chloe, I have to say that I haven't the least sympathy for the right, and especially those who, after the fact, try to justify the Spanish traditionalist right's actions between 1936 and 1939. Go find another forum at which to spew your rightist views, puhleez...

Sorry to insist, but is Llivia a part of Catalunya ?

Wow reading these postings I can imagine that there is a lot of strife betwwen all the peoples of Spain. Question Jordi, I being Latin American have never heard of any contributions Catalan has ever made to either the language and culture of Latin America. The Portuguese and Galicians have even contributed more to the variations of language and culture in Latin America than the Catalonians. Can you clarify this for me??

Dear Greg:
Yes Llívia is a part of Catalunya and so is Perpinyà. The difference is Llívia is Spanish and Perpinya is French.

Dear JGreco:
Contributions to language and culture of Latin America by Catalans has been made in Castilian by many Catalans over the centuries, since Catalans became a part of the countries they settled in. When America was discovered by Castille, Catalunya wasn't allowed to commerce directly with the American Spanish Possesions, until the late 18th century at the very end, since it was considered a different kingdom (with different language and laws) although we had the same king.
Just one example. Mexico and Buenos Aires became the capital cities of Catalan language and culture in exile after the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939). Catalan was forbidden and Catalan intellectuals who hadn't died or who weren't caught (and often murdered) fled to South America. Most of the Catalan language production was published in those countries (and a lot of the Castilian Spanish, Galician and Basque as well). Latin America was very generous with all those who had fought against fascism and the Franco regime.
Mexico has recently acknowledged the importance Catalan intellectuals had in the country's culture all the way after the war in the recent book fair in Guadalajara where Catalonia was the host culture. Many, many university professors were of Catalan origin.
I'm sure I could make up a list of great Catalan names. If you're really interested you can look up the Catalan Clubs (Casal Català), which still exist in most Central and South American countries.
It must be remembered that the great Catalan cellist Pau Casals (Pablo Casals) was offered the United Nations Peace Medal in 1971, two months before his 95th birthday, after many, many years of exile in French Catalonia although he often visited Latin America where he gave many concerts. His mother was from Porto Rico since his Catalan father married there and many many Catalans also had a strong influence both in Puerto Rico and Cuba. Before his United Nations concert this is what he said to the United Nations in his Catalan language:
WORDS OF PAU CASALS AT THE UNITED NATIONS
October 24, 1971

"This is the greatest honour of my life.
Peace has always been my greatest concern. I learnt to love it when I was but a child. When I was a boy, my mother - an exceptional, marvellous woman -, would talk to me about peace, because at that time there were also many wars. What is more, I am Catalan. Catalonia had the first democratic parliament, well before England did. And the first United Nations were in my country. At that time- the Eleventh Century - there was a meeting in Toluges - now France - to talk about peace, because at that time Catalans were already against, AGAINST war. That is why the United Nations, which works solely towards the peace ideal, is in my heart, because anything to do with peace goes straight to my heart.

I have not played the cello in public for many years, but I feel that the time has come to play again. I am going to play a melody from Catalan folklore: El cant dels ocells. (the song of the birds). Birds sing when they are in the sky, they sing: "Peace, Peace, Peace", and it is a melody that Bach, Beethoven and all the greats would have admired and loved. What is more, it is born in the soul of my people, Catalonia".

As for linguistics please compare Catalan "cant dels ocells" with Occitan "cant dels ausèls"and French "chant des oiseaux" and Castilian "canto de los pájaros."
It's obvious Catalan is often near the Gallo-Romance languages than the Iberian-Romance languages.

My god, Chloe. Nowhere have I read anything that Jordi wrote that can be construed as oozing with hatred. Rather, he's been more than a little too kind responding to your tiresome posts. I myself would've stopped at your first response after seeing how you twist his words around just to argue your point. You are quite the agitator.

Thank you Jordi that was very inciteful (I do not remember the spelling of that word). How hard is it for a native Spanish and Portuguese speaker to learn Catala. I heard it was almost unintelligable to Spanish but I do not know whether that was true or not. Can you clarify this for me please?

A Castilian Spanish monoglot speaker who hears Catalan for the first time doesn't understand the language. It is not only a matter of language but also phonetics and intonation, which are very different. Catalan pronunciation sounds "as foreign" to Castilian Spanish speakers as Portuguese.
This said there are many similarities as is the case with all southern Romance languages. Catalan is a bridge language, much closer to Occitan (and even French) in many ways but also close to Aragonese dialects, which are transitional to Castilian Spanish. Aragonese dialects are dying out so the Latin continuum is not as clear.
We have no problems with Castilian Spanish because we learn the language from a very young age and Spanish is quite present in Catalonia, even more so in the biggest cities. We tend to speak Spanish with a moderate or strong Catalan accent. The Catalan "l" for example is palatal like the English "l" and quite different to Castilian Spanish.
I've known Castilian Spanish newcomers to learn the language quite well in less than a year and others don't speak it after 30 years in Catalonia although they understand it because it is widely spoken.
The younger generation born or bred in Catalonia is 90% bilingual although some will speak more Catalan than Castilian Spanish and others more Castilian Spanish than Catalan.
You need to be bilingual if you want to work in public service (official) jobs and although not all private firms require Catalan it is considered quite useful since Catalan clients will often speak to you in their language.
Lately, we are receiving immigrants from all over the world. I've heard people from all five continents living in Catalonia who speak Catalan. The younger they are the better they learn both official languages: Catalan and Castilian.

I would like to thanks Travis, Bill and GGreco for their kind words.