the "schwa" sound in words that end in "an" or "ion"

I pronounce it like the "i" in "bit" instead of the "a" in "about". When I say "nation", I say it like "nay-shin", not "nay-shun". I pronounce "American" as "uh-mare-uh-kin" rather than "uh-mare-uh-kun". I've never seen this listed anywhere though. Why is that?

Maybe because you don't know how to speak?

Someone,

A professional linguist would actually draw his conclusions on how you or I pronounce these words based on tape recordings. However, I'm not sure myself how they determine some sounds. For example, the uh in America sounds the same to me as the u in 'cut' or 'fun', yet a lot of linguists represent this short u sound as an upside down v rather than by a schwa.

Someone, that's actually a well-documented feature of American English, that [@] and [I] may be somewhat interchangeable in certain positions. I, too, can say "nation" as [neISIn], or variably as [neIS@n]. "American" I say [@mEr@kIn] or [@mErIkIn]. There was a discussion a couple of days ago on the forum about "spigot," which many said they pronounced [spIgIt] (or [spIkIt], as it turns out) instead of final [@t].

As for the distinction between [V] and [@], it's arguable whether or not there's a large articulatory difference in most American dialects, but [V] is used in transcription for stressed syllables and [@] for unstressed. However, in some dialects where [V] is shifting around, it's just [V] that's changing, while [@] remains constantly central. This has been documented in California English where [V] as in "fun" is generally fronting, while [@] as in the first vowel of "about" is the same as before.

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks.

BTW, I do the same thing with "American". I just didn't mention it.

I myself tend to prefer [I] over [@] in such positions practically invariably. For example, I say "nation" as /"neSIn/ --> ["ne.SI~:n], "American" as /@"merIkIn/ --> [@~."me.r\I.kI~:n"], and "spigot" as /"spIgIt/ --> ["spI.gI?]. (When I use just [e] above, that's right, as I seem to only significantly diphthongize /e/ and /o/ when they are either directly preceding another vowel, or when they are word-final position (and even then, not always), unless I strongly emphasize the syllable containing them, where then they are always diphthongs.) As for [V] versus [@], in my own dialect at least, there appears to be no distinction phonemically between them at all, hence why I write them both as /@/, and have a bad habit of writing both just as [@].

Most Americans don't precede the /n/ with a vowel at all; instead they pronounce the /n/ as a syllabic consonant. This is also true for several other consonants and in thousands of words: button, nation, prism, table, and so on. In the case of /m/, /n/, or /l/, it is usually transcribed by a diacritic below the segment symbol that makes it a syllabic consonant; in the case of /r/, usually the corresponding vowel (a stressed or unstressed central vowel) is rhoticized, which is a different diacritic.

I pronounce -tion as Mxsmaniac described.

Am I the only person here who is rather turned off by Mxsmanic's so confidently speaking in terms of "most Americans"? But anyways, in such places, for me [In] and [n=] are interchangeable, and the more formally and slowly I speak, the more I tend to use [In], and vice versa.

Hm, interesting observation Someone (lol, that bothers me). I say those examples with an "i" sound, too. Amerikin, nayshin, etc.

Also, I say "button" without a final vowel.

Another thing I noticed that's very odd is how I say "Jordan." I don't have a second vowel in there either (It's not "jor-dun"). Instead there's a weird poppy explosion thing that happens up in my nose. Does that happen for anyone else?

"weird poppy explosion thing"

Yeah... I know *exactly* what you're talking about...

I never noticed it before, but now that you mention it...

Always a schwa in such words as "nation", "ration" and the final syllable of "American" etc., however I never use a schwa in the penultimate syllable of "American".