Have-halve split?

Dave   Monday, April 25, 2005, 15:58 GMT
I just noticed that I pronounce these words differently, and from what I have since read, it's a phenomenon that's present in New York (and possibly other areas in the Northeast).

The split manifests as a raising and sometimes a lengthening of the vowel from [{], especially before /b/ /d/ /g/ /S/ /f/ /n/ /m/ and maybe a few others (though there's no definite pattern). The different phoneme seems to appear in "halve" because it is a derivative of "half", which uses the longer phoneme.

Does anyone else have this split?

Also, what do you think is the cause? Some people seem to think it's a case of symmetry with the cot-caught vowels, which are unmerged in New York English.
mjd   Monday, April 25, 2005, 18:17 GMT
Yeah, mine are different as well, but I'm also in the Northeast (New Jersey).
Deborah   Monday, April 25, 2005, 21:52 GMT
I also do this. I'm from California, but then I'm an old codger(ess) who does other unusual things such as pronouncing "wh" words with "hw" and using "whom" much of the time.
andre in usa   Monday, April 25, 2005, 22:23 GMT
I think for me the "a" in "halve" is more fronted than the "a" "have," but I'm also from the Northeast (SE Penna).

"Also, what do you think is the cause?"

Well, I thought you pointed out a cause a couple lines above that (about "halve" being derived from "half," resulting in a longer phoneme than have) and it makes sense to me.
Jim   Tuesday, April 26, 2005, 02:39 GMT
They've got different vowels for me but I think it's probably a case of the TRAP-BATH split. "Have" has the same vowel as in "cat" whilst "halve" has the same vowel as in "psalm".
Joe   Tuesday, April 26, 2005, 03:06 GMT
Jim,

What is TRAP-BATH split? Where can I find more information on that vowel split?
D 2   Tuesday, April 26, 2005, 03:08 GMT
Jim,

I think that the Northeastern United States has a similar TRAP-BATH split, but instead of the ''bath'' words being pronounced with the vowel in ''psalm'' they are pronounced with the diphthong /e@/ i.e.
/h{v/ ''have'' vs. /he@v/ ''halve''.
Jim   Tuesday, April 26, 2005, 07:13 GMT
That's similar to the BAD-LAD split which I have too. Here's a good place with info on phonemic differentation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonemic_differentiation
Jim   Tuesday, April 26, 2005, 07:16 GMT
The TRAP-BATH split, as you'll read in the Wikipedia article, is the bussiness about pronouncing the vowels in "dance", "plant", "bath", "trance", "bath", etc. the same as the one in "psalm".
Gerald   Tuesday, April 26, 2005, 07:30 GMT
In my pronunciation, "have" has the same vowel as "hat", while "halve" and "half" have that of "father".