Saturday, May 07, 2005, 15:09 GMT
Sander, mind you that the OE <isc> ending has become En <ish> due to the change /sk/ --> /S/, which incidentally also happened in German, and which happened in Dutch as /sk/ --> /sx/.
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How harsh it does sound?
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Saturday, May 07, 2005, 15:09 GMT
Sander, mind you that the OE <isc> ending has become En <ish> due to the change /sk/ --> /S/, which incidentally also happened in German, and which happened in Dutch as /sk/ --> /sx/.
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 15:21 GMT
=>and which happened in Dutch as /sk/ --> /sx/.<=
Begg your pardon?
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 16:34 GMT
What I mean is than common Germanic /sk/ turned into /sx/ (in some dialects /S/) or in some cases just /s/ in what is now Standard Dutch, but changed into /S/ in both English and German. Note that I'm using X-SAMPA here for the transcriptions above.
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 16:36 GMT
<<Begg your pardon?>>
In Dutch the historical Germanic /sk/ became /sx/, as in "schip", which in Old High German is "skip".
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 16:40 GMT
That wouldn't be Old High German, but rather Old Saxon or Old English (even though that'd be spelled "scip" using Old English Roman-script orthography). Remember that that /p/ changes to /f/ with the Second Germanic Sound Shift, hence New High German "Schiff" (/SIf/).
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 16:43 GMT
Sorry - you're right, I should have written "skif". I just looked up the etymology of "ship" on the little AOL online dictionary thingy, and I misread it. :-)
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 16:50 GMT
but why the 'sx' (the X) ? we dont use "sx' just 'S/Sch/
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 16:59 GMT
<<but why the 'sx' (the X) ? we dont use "sx' just 'S/Sch/>>
/sx/ is how the sound is written in the SAMPA (for me) or X-SAMPA (for Travis) transcription.
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 17:00 GMT
Ah.
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 17:01 GMT
SAMPA is how it sound for english speakers?
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 17:04 GMT
The reason why I myself use X-SAMPA is that it allows far more exacting and precise transcriptions of things which're being transcribed than is possible with ad hoc comparisons to other things and like.
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 17:05 GMT
<<SAMPA is how it sound for english speakers?>>
No...SAMPA and X-SAMPA both phonetic transcription systems that can be used for multiple languages. In either system, the Dutch sequence "sch" is spelled /sx/. By the way, I think I might start using X-SAMPA instead of SAMPA.
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 17:06 GMT
And, no, X-SAMPA is just an analogue for IPA which can be written in 7-bit ASCII text, that's all.
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 17:30 GMT
Travis, how would you transcribe long and short German "a" in X-SAMPA? And are you using the same "a" values for Intergermania?
Saturday, May 07, 2005, 17:41 GMT
I would transcribe German short "a" as /a/ and German long "a" as /a:/ in X-SAMPA. I am using the same values of "a" for Intergermania, rather than having a Dutch-style short "a", that is, having short "a" be /@/.
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