Silent letters.

A while ago in the thread, I listed this list of silent letters.

h-in ''hour'', ''herb'', honor''.
g-sign, reign
c-antarctica, scissors
h-loch
w-whine, what, why, where, when, which
e-have, give, more, store, shore, before
ch-yacht
h-Thomas
h-yogh
w-who
n-hymn
a-caramel
or-comfortable
o-double
e-heart
a-heard
u-guess
a-boar
oe-hors doeuvr
second ''e'' in-were
ugh-thought, bought, sought, fought
u-court, four, pour
z-buzz
p-pterosaur
h-in-ghetto
h-in-spaghetti
ps-in-corps
Second-o-in-door, floor
h-in-vehicle
o-in-people ''Why not ''peeple'' like ''steeple'' and ''feeble''?''
w-in-whore
second-o-in-poor
u-in-tour
h-in-hour
a-in-board, oar, roar.
th-in-clothes
b-in-comb, bomb, tomb, thumb.
h-khaki
u-aunt
h-whoa
l-half
c-in science, scent
h-bhang
ch-schwa
k-know, knead, knew, knot, knit, knock
w-saw, caw, raw, paw, maw, law, claw, straw, draw, gnaw
a-bread, instead, head, read, pleasure, measure
e-cheese, please, house, mouse, goose, loose, sense, defense, offense, tense
u-misquito, marquee
ue-barque, torque, antique, unique
d-sandwich
a-broad, broadcast
gh-light, night, caught, taught, sight, straight, eight
h-chemical, chord, school, choir, character, choral
g-gnu, gnome, gnarl, gnat
w-write, wrong, wrestle, wrest, wrap
h-rhyme, rhinoceros, rhythm, rhotic
c-stuck, truck, lock, stock, back, stack, sock, sack, tick, heck
h-thyme, Thomas, Thompson
t-match, fetch
h-dhow, dhole
p-psycho, psalm
i-friend

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

This is how Jim responded,

Let me have a look at some of your so-called silent letters.

''h - "herb" ... well, I pronounce it /he:b/
g - "sign" ... who pronounces it /sin/?
c - "Antarctica" ... I pronounce it /@nta:ktik../
h - "loch" ... "ch" is a digraph for /K/ (pronounced as a fricitive as opposed to a stop in some accents).
w - "whine", "what", etc. ... the "wh" again is a digraph for /W/ (pronounced like /w/ but voiceless in some accents and like /hw/ in other accents)
e - "more", "store", etc. ... in some accents "or" and "ore" are pronounced differently.
ch-yacht ... throw out the "ch" and you get "yat" which I'd pronounce /j@t/ but I pronounce "yacht" as /jot/
h-Thomas ... I believe that the "th" is another digraph pronounced differently to a "t" by some.
h-yogh ... again the "gh" is a digraph representing what comes out as a fricitive for some.
w-who ... I belive that the "wh" is pronounced differently from a simple "h" by some.
n-hymn ... again I think that the "mn" is pronounced differently to an "m" by some.
a-caramel ... I pronounce it /k@r..m.l/ through away the 2nd "a" and you'll get "carmel" which I'd pronounce /ka:m.l/.''

''Similarly the double letters in ''stiff'', ''cuff'', ''scoff'' and ''mess'' serve to indicate a distinction made in some accents. Besides if I saw "mes", I think I'd be inclinded to pronounce it /mez/ not /mes/. ''

Here five of my responses,

Jim, Why would you pronounce ''mes'' as /mez/. Shouldn't a word spelled ''mes'' rhyme with ''yes''?

''h-Thomas ... I believe that the "th" is another digraph pronounced differently to a "t" by some.''

Yeah, ''th'' is pronounced [th] but it's not pronounced [th] in those words so the ''h'' is silent. Are you telling me that you make no distinction between ''three'' and ''tree'', and so for you ''th'' and ''t'' are the same?

''w-who ... I belive that the "wh" is pronounced differently from a simple "h" by some.''

No one pronounces ''who'' and ''whole'' as [whu:] and [whOul].

''n-hymn ... again I think that the "mn" is pronounced differently to an "m" by some.''

I've heard some people make a distinction between ''mn'' and ''m'' before, but it's only a minority of Scots that make such a distinction. So, therefore, couldn't we say that the ''n'' in ''mn'' is silent because for most of us (but not all of us) ''m'' and ''mn'' are the same?

''w - "whine", "what", etc. ... the "wh" again is a digraph for /W/ (pronounced like /w/ but voiceless in some accents and like /hw/ in other accents)''

Again, It's only a minority that make such a distinctions. Therefore couldn't we say that the ''h'' in ''wh'' is silent because for most of us (but not all of us) ''w'' and ''wh'' are the same.?

I think that it is really a waste of time for non-native speakers to worry
so much about minor phonemic differecnes. It is important to learn
how to pronounce words, but you can learn to pronounce words
without worrying about whether there is some small (or large)
group or people which pronounces the words differently.
Pick a dictionary (i.e. OED for a British accent or Mirriam Webster for
an American one) and use that to figure out how to pronounce words.

It is interesting for native speakers to learn how other people
pronounce the same words in completely different manners,
but in my experience with many non-native speakers there are
more important things to worry about. For example, many
second-language Engish speakers need to practice the basic
vowel sounds (diphthongs and all) which differ from their native
language. Choosing the incorrect vowel for
'schwa' is much worse than pronouncing 'which' to sound like
'witch.' I don't pronounce those the same but I don't get confused
when other people do.

<<I think that it is really a waste of time for non-native speakers to worry
so much about minor phonemic differecnes>>

It is a waste of time for anyone. Who cares as long as you are understood.

Worrying about silent letters is useful for ESL students who need an excuse for not learning English.

''h-Thomas ... I believe that the "th" is another digraph pronounced differently to a "t" by some.''

''Yeah, ''th'' is pronounced [th] but it's not pronounced [th] in those words so the ''h'' is silent. Are you telling me that you make no distinction between ''three'' and ''tree'', and so for you ''th'' and ''t'' are the same?''

Rho, The ''th'' in ''Thomas'', ''Thompson'', ''thyme'' etc. is pronounced differently to [t] in Scots, but it's still not [th]. It's a voiceless dental stop.

Jim is right that in some accents (mine, as an example) ''the "th" is another digraph pronounced differently to a "t" by some.''

Some Scots pronounce ''three'' and ''tree'' the same, but they're often called uneducated.

Silent redundant letters are the reason the English is not yet an accepted World Language.
It is very important that nobody understands English Spelling except native speakers with a University education.
Let them figure it out from the TV, eh?
Right!
Anyway
Diagraphs only cover a few of these spellings. Consonant+h
and "ng" are the main ones.

''h-dhow, dhole'' I pronounce the ''dh'' in those words as a voiced dental plosive.

''e-cheese, please, house, mouse, goose, loose, sense, defense, offense, tense''

I pronounce the ''e'' in those words as [e] in Tom's Chart or [E] in Sampa.

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Here's some more about my accent,

I pronounce the ''nit'', ''nook'', ''neigh'' and ''nod'' as [hn].

I pronounce the ''r'' in ''rather'' and ''ring'' as [hr].

I pronounce the ''l'' in ''loaf'' and ''laugh'' as [hl].

I pronounce the ''w'' in ''wabsteids'' and ''waefu'' as [hw].

I pronounce the ''h'' in ''hame'', ''hairse'' and ''hale'' as [hj].

I pronounce the ''l'' in ''lint'' and ''lymph'' as [wl].

I pronounce the ''l'' in ''git'' and ''gim'' as [gj].

I pronounce the ''k'' in ''ken'' and ''kirk'' as [kj].

So, to me it seems like those words have missing letters rather than silent letters.

What about the the g in monger - mong-ger
and
g in wanker - wang-ker

Tricky.

''What about the the g in monger - mong-ger
and
g in wanker - wang-ker''

''Tricky.''

Yep, those are two other words that seem to have missing letters.

Also,

I pronounce the ''n'' in ''nib'' and ''nit'' as [fn].

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