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I recently read a 2004 string of post about Ebonics. I was inspired to start a new
post based on two reasons. First, many of the responses I read in this forum seem
intelligent and responsible. Next, there is an enormous misunderstanding about the
definition of Ebonics.
There is a proper explanation of Ebonics here: http://politicalessays.blogspot.com/
Some of you raised interesting points in the previous ebonics thread, so I thought
that this would be a good place to place to challenge a few long-held misconceptions
and start a little debate.
Any comments?
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Ebonics is a substandard dialect of English used by illiterates and other very uneducated
persons. It has nothing to recommend it, and there is nothing to be gained by defending
it. I notice that the article to which you point seems to defend "Black English,"
but curiously it is not _written_ in Black English.
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Mxsmanic : do you think Ebonics is a sociolect, an ethnolect or something different
from both ?
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"Ebonics is a substandard dialect of English used by illiterates and other very uneducated
persons."
This entirely subjective (and false) statement is unworthy of a forum that professes
to have an interest in language.
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I agree with JJM completely here. Mxsmanic's comment about AAVE being "substandard"
and used by "illiterates" and "other very uneducated persons" is purely Mxsmanic's
own severe bias, which should not even have the room to be voiced in the first place
within the serious study of linguistics and individual languages whatsoever. And
by the way, one must remember that most people /in general/, at least within English-speaking
contexts, do not write like they speak, especially formally. I myself generally
speak and write very differently, and except within strictly informal written contexts
like chatting, what I write overall does not reflect what I normally speak, speaking
formally aside. Hence, how can one assume that someone who speaks AAVE will necessarily
write in a fashion that reflects it, or assume that someone who writes in a fashion
which is formal and literary does *not* speak AAVE? As for you, Mxsmanic, there
is no room for your kinds of views here, period.
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It's neither a sociolect nor an ethnolect; it's just solecism, pure and simple, and
of the worst kind. Educated and intelligent people do not use it, no matter what
their SES or ethnicity.
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"Ebonics is a substandard dialect of English used by illiterates and other very uneducated
persons. It has nothing to recommend it, and there is nothing to be gained by defending
it"
"Educated and intelligent people do not use it, no matter what their SES or ethnicity."
Your comments on this topic are appalling, Mxsmanic, and reflect your severe ignorance
in this area. First of all, get rid of the term "substandard," which should absolutely
never apply to a native speaker's speech. In addition, your claims about it being
a variety for "illiterates and other very uneducated persons" is wholly unsubstantiated.
I shouldn't have to prove anything but I personally know people who speak some form
of AAVE/Ebonics who are quite intelligent and educated. My apartmentmate Tyrone who
often posts on here is one example of someone who is proficient in Ebonics (while
it's not the only variety of English he speaks) and is one of the smartest and well-educated
people I know.
Please think before you post.
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Mxsmanic, ideas like "solecism" have no factual basis in the first place, and what
do you exactly define "educated" and "intelligent" as, anyways, that makes you so
sure that someone does not speak such, whether it is at home, or with friends, or
wherever, just because they happen to be "educated" or "intelligent" (whatever those
are supposed to mean, anyways).
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"Please think before you post" isn't enough in my opinion with respect to Mxsmanic;
I think that there ought to be zero room for his kinds of views, whatsoever, on this
board, just like fascists' and racists' views are not welcome here at all.
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"Ebonics is misunderstood"
. . . because it's incomprehensible.
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Bubbler, well, I myself tend to find AAVE quite lacking in intelligibility relative
to my own dialect and formal Northern Central American English, to say the very least,
but that does not make it "inferior" in any kind of fashion per se. Of course, that
still causes problems when interacting with people at times, simply because I not
only don't understand what they're saying often, but also because I tend to automatically
switch into formal speech, and away from the dialect that I'm used to speaking in,
when talking with someone who is speaking AAVE, as if I were speaking to a non-native
English speaker or like.
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Kirk: I doubt that Tyrone speaks Ebonics when talking with his employer. The dialect
IS substandard, and speaking it anywhere besides among friends would be like someone
talking like a hillbilly just because he grew up in the hills.
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Oh joy! An ebonics thread! Sigh.
AAVE or Ebonics is by no means a substandard dialect, although it is viewed as an
informal speaking English variant. I speak it frequently, although I would not write
in such a dialect, as it is narrow in focus and (as Bubbler rather crudely pointed
out) its intelligibility. The comparison seems slightly ludicrous to me; I don't
see Southerners writing "ah" or "sugah" or an RP speaker writing exactly as their
delightfully formalized-sounding English is spoken.
AAVE is part of the linguistic magic of my ridiculously multiracial life--I code
switch often in a family that is white, black, Native American, and Japanese but
now add my own South African idioms and hybrid pronunciations.
Mxsmanic, your comments are amusing in their ignorance. Spoken dialects are not
substandard, they're simply variants. For the record, I'll slip into AAVE when I'm
tired, stressed, irritable, or in rather specific situations--i.e. my dad's all black
Thanksgiving dinner, in which I'm the whitest person in attendance--but code switching
underlines the fact that AAVE is part of my genuine verbal interaction with others.
I also use it to emphasize certain feelings or responses, so to that extent, Cro
Magnon, I use it at work on occasion at all three of my jobs with the university--with
the admissions, history, and outreach programs. Granted, I don't write as I speak,
and I am, by most defintions, 'educated'--I'm pursuing a masters degree in European
history at present--but your ignorance amuses and appalls me.
But I think I shall just stop now before my tired writing slips into irritating pedagogery.
have a delicious day.
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I appreciate Mxsmanic who calls them the way he sees them. We need more of that.
It's time to cut through all the BS. There are standards. There is far too much silencing
of people who speak unwelcome truths.
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Steve K, no, just some of us don't exactly appreciate ignorance and severe bias like
that of Mxsmanic's that much.
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