If I would have known

Brian   Sun May 04, 2008 11:28 pm GMT
Why do I hear SO many people say "If I would have known, I would have told you" instead of "If I HAD known..."? I think it sounds awful and incorrect but it's so common. It's hideous.
Earle   Sun May 04, 2008 11:33 pm GMT
To me the phrases are different, with "would" or "could," substituted in the same phrase. It introduces an element of possibility. "If I HAD" just means one didn't know. "Would" or "could" to me, at least, mean that cognition was impossible or unlikely, which of course bears on the responsibility to divulge...
Guest   Mon May 05, 2008 3:05 am GMT
I have never heard anyone say that in my life. What country do you live in? But then again, I am an intellectual and thus people of my class would be unlikely to utter such a linguistic aberration. It's a shame that such phrases are in use, but then again you can't expect everyone to be as gifted as I am.
Earle   Mon May 05, 2008 4:22 am GMT
No, your gifts are indeed dazzling...
TomJimJack   Mon May 05, 2008 12:16 pm GMT
To Guest :

It must be oppressive to live on the same Earth with illiterate us
Johnny   Mon May 05, 2008 9:10 pm GMT
I used to think the structure "If I would have done something" was as non-standard as "ain't", and so it was almost dialectal, common only in certain contexts and among certain groups... until I was told by a professional writer that that structure is perfectly ok and they never heard anything strange about it. Not only informal, because they told me they would use it in their articles.
I'd like to hear other opinions on this, if possible. I was surprised, and I still don't know much about it.
Guest   Mon May 05, 2008 9:45 pm GMT
''would have done'' and "had done" are both correct, and have different meaning.

'would have' is the conditional.
Earle   Mon May 05, 2008 9:50 pm GMT
Thanx...
Guest   Mon May 05, 2008 10:24 pm GMT
<< 'would have' is the conditional. >>

Doesn`t "if" denote a condition and thus "would" becomes redundant? For example, " If I had seen him before..." already express a condition, to see him before, so "would" is not need.
Guest   Mon May 05, 2008 10:44 pm GMT
If I knew that, I wouldn't have done it

many people use it like this (instead of ''If I had known that'')
Skippy   Mon May 05, 2008 10:45 pm GMT
I think Guest (the one right above me) may be correct. You can use either "if" or word inversion (which is used much less frequently). For example, "Had I known, I would have told you" instead of "If I had known, I would have told you."
Earle   Tue May 06, 2008 2:26 am GMT
[quote]Doesn`t "if" denote a condition and thus "would" becomes redundant? For example, " If I had seen him before..." already express a condition, to see him before, so "would" is not need.[/quote]

Not in the usage which if familiar to me. The condition of ignorance is present in both. When "would" or "could" is introduced, the condition of the possibility of knowing is added...