Which language is more illogical in grammar or pronunciation

Joker   Sun May 11, 2008 7:13 am GMT
English or French?
L'italofilo   Sun May 11, 2008 7:19 am GMT
English is more illogical in terms of grammar or pronunciation than French......
PARISIEN   Sun May 11, 2008 7:38 am GMT
<< Which language is more illogical in grammar or pronunciation:
English or French? >>

-- Due to their semi-etymological spelling both have arguably the most illogical pronunciation.
They also share another remarkably distinctive feature: the overabundance of vernacular or even downright vulgar word formations or idioms (compare for instance 'toujours' with the purely Latin 'sempre' or 'siempre', or the many English words of obscure origin that were passed from slang to received vocabulary).

They started as people's languages, not as academic constructions.
They are nonetheless the most influential of all languages.
Despite, or because of that?
Guest   Sun May 11, 2008 8:12 am GMT
Are 'toujours' and 'álways' parallel constructions or is it pure coincidence that they both begin with 'all/tout'?
PARISIEN   Sun May 11, 2008 9:49 am GMT
<< Are 'toujours' and 'álways' parallel constructions or is it pure coincidence that they both begin with 'all/tout'? >>

-- Another case of language convergence. Southwestern German dialects of the Swabian/Allemanic area sometimes use 'ällaweil' for 'always'. Literally it means 'all-while' but is eerily similar to the English word.
Guest   Sun May 11, 2008 6:52 pm GMT
Surely, English grammar is simpler and more logical than French Grammar.

In English (or French), is the pronunciation the problem, or is it the spelling?
Guest   Sun May 11, 2008 8:12 pm GMT
<< They are nonetheless the most influential of all languages. >>

Latin is the most influential language of all times.
Skippy   Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am GMT
French grammar is really not that complicated, the language is only daunting because of its complex spelling system which is debatably more complex than English (I say debatably because I'm an American and, to me, French is more complex, although to a Frenchman surely English may seem more complex).

English grammar is also relatively simple in terms of verb conjugation, lack of a non-pronoun gender, and lack of non-pronoun noun cases (with the genetive being a frequent exception).

I'm not sure a language can necessarily be illogical in grammar.
Guest   Mon May 12, 2008 7:35 am GMT
Well, at least native French speakers can spell their own language while native English speakers can't spell for fuck all.
greg   Mon May 12, 2008 2:41 pm GMT
Joker : « Which language is more illogical in [...] pronunciation ? ».

La prononciation d'une langue n'est jamais "illogique". Su étais aveugle, tu n'aurais pas accès à l'écriture traditionnelle (hors braille), tu n'aurais pas consience de l'usage que font certaines langues de l'alphabet latin et par voie de conséquence il te semblerait fort illogique de concevoir que des sons articulés puissent être "illogiques".

Pour faire court, l'illogisme, s'il y a, ne saurait frapper la prononciation mais bien plus certainement la transcription graphique des sons articulés.
Guest   Mon May 12, 2008 8:13 pm GMT
<<Pour faire court, l'illogisme, s'il y a, ne saurait frapper la prononciation mais bien plus certainement la transcription graphique des sons articulés. >>

I wonder -- do they have spelling bees in France?
Guest   Mon May 12, 2008 11:21 pm GMT
<<I wonder -- do they have spelling bees in France?>>

Yes, and its televised.
Guest   Mon May 12, 2008 11:36 pm GMT
Spanish-speaking countries don't have spelling bee contests, it'd be a joke for them.
Guest   Tue May 13, 2008 12:38 am GMT
In fact when I was not aware of the English spelling oddities I believed that the English speakers were dumb people since they had those spelling contests.
Guest   Tue May 13, 2008 1:06 am GMT
<< I wonder -- do they have spelling bees in France? >>

Yes. The national dicteés in France and Canada, are actually a much bigger deal than our spelling bees. They take those competitions very seriously, and have contestants from all over the world come and compete.