France finally catches up with Europe - languages recognised

greg   Mon May 26, 2008 9:30 am GMT
Tim : « It would be essential if the French school system would allow parents to send their children into Breton, Flamish, Corsican, Occitan or Alsatian speaking schools with French taught as a second language. »

Je ne sais pas si une telle possibilité existe. Mais il y a des écoles d'enseignement bilingue.

en jaune → enseignement bilingue public
en bleu → enseignement bilingue associatif
en rouge → enseignement bilingue confessionnel
http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/europe/images/france-educ-biling4-2005.jpg




'Guest' : « How tough is it to amend the French constitution? If it's anything like amending the U.S. Constitution (which is like pulling teeth), wouldn't it be better to just change the language section to something like:

"Congress [National Assembly/Senate?] shall have the power to regulate the legal status of languages." -- suitably translated into French, of course :) ».

Mais le Congrès (la réunion à Versailles de l'Assemblée nationale et du Sénat) a déjà tout pouvoir législatif, sous contrôle du Conseil constitutionnel. Il n'est donc pas utile de préciser que ces pouvoirs concernent aussi le statut des langues, comme il est inutile de déclarer que ces pouvoirs s'appliquent aussi au droit civil où au code la route.




'Guest' : « BTW: Does the number "605" mean there have been 604 prior amendments? (If so, it's apparently not that tough to amend the constitution.) »

Non, je crois qu'ils s'agit du 605e amendement proposé dans le cadre de **cette** révision constitutionnelle, prévue pour juillet 2008. Plus généralement, un projet de loi ou une proposition de loi peuvent faire l'objet de milliers, voire de dizaines de milliers d'amendements, confinant parfois à l'obstruction parlementaire délibérée.

La France a changé plusieurs fois de Constitution (une quinzaine en tout), et la Constitution actuelle (adoptée par référendum en 1958) a été modifiée à de nombreuses reprises (une quinzaine aussi, en comptant juillet 2008).
Guest   Mon May 26, 2008 4:03 pm GMT
"<< It would be essential if the French school system would allow parents to send their children into Breton, Flamish, Corsican, Occitan or Alsatian speaking schools with French taught as a second language. >>

-- I agree. But let's face it: the will never be much demand. "


Perhaps in Northern Alsace near the Rhine, where a lot of German people live?
Zinedine   Mon May 26, 2008 4:11 pm GMT
You have to consider that in France sould be teached also Arabic language, because more than 10% of French people have North African heritage.
Guest   Mon May 26, 2008 4:33 pm GMT
"You have to consider that in France sould be teached also Arabic language, because more than 10% of French people have North African heritage."

true, look "Entre les murs".
Guest   Mon May 26, 2008 9:06 pm GMT
"You have to consider that in France sould be teached also Arabic language, because more than 10% of French people have North African heritage."
true, look "Entre les murs".

The film shows many Blacks in an immigrant neighbourhood.
Do not confuse "Africans" with "North Africans" (Arabs).
Very few people speak Arabic in France. Only elderly immigrants (actually they generally use Berberic dialects, not Arabic). Their children generally refuse to understand any Arabic.

Within Turkish and Pakistani comunities however, language transmission from generation to generation seems to be pretty efficient.
Marco   Tue May 27, 2008 9:12 am GMT
In France more than 10% have north Aftrican Eritage. If you consider also Black African, French people with African eritage are between 15/20%.

But I dont agree with Zinedine. For example, following his idea in France it would be teached also Italian. In France there are 5 milions of Italian autochthonous, and more than 1 million of Italian of first or second generation.

The French state have to preserve only local languages.
Guest   Tue May 27, 2008 10:24 am GMT
<< If this was true, France would have signed the Charte européenne des langues régionales . France is afraid of regional languages and this is the reason why they refused to do so , to protect the weak French . >>

On the contrary Spanish is the weak language. Look at Spain it's tormented with separatism initiated by the Catalan, Galician, and Basque speakers and now Asturian, Aragonese, and Leonese are now now recognized as separate languages not dialects of Spanish languages.
Guest   Tue May 27, 2008 10:31 am GMT
Spanish is the lingua franca of the Iberian Peninsula. People choose freely to speak Spanish plus their own dialect (Catalan, Valencian, Basque, Galician)but French is not a lingua franca since most of people forgot their old language and now speak only French. It's better to have a lingua franca like Spanish so people can communicate to each other and still preserving different tongues to enrich the country. That is the reason why Spanish is more universal and stronger than French , it is spoken by many people who still speak their original mother tonge, unlike Occitans who no longer speak Occitan and have French as their mother tongue.
Guest   Tue May 27, 2008 12:01 pm GMT
««Spanish is the lingua franca of the Iberian Peninsula. »» ha,ha,ha. Another nut case! At least learn geography. Spain is not the Iberian peninsula. A litttle difficulty passing the 4th grade?hum?

Learn here, Iberian Peninsula: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula

Oh yes, Andorra's official language is : Catalan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorra

Have a nice day
Guest   Tue May 27, 2008 1:59 pm GMT
««Spanish is the lingua franca of the Iberian Peninsula. »» ha,ha,ha. Another nut case! At least learn geography. Spain is not the Iberian peninsula. A litttle difficulty passing the 4th grade?hum?

I know better than you what the Iberian Peninsula is. Spanish is the lingua franca because two people from the Iberian Peninsula, for example a Portuguese and a Catalan, whose mother tongue is not Spanish, will always choose Spanish to communicate to each other. I don't try to say that Spanish is official in Portugal, but more than 50% of people speak it, and this makes Spanish a lingua franca in the Iberian Peninsula. It's obvious.Oh

yes, Andorra's official language is : Catalan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorra

And? There are more Portuguese speakers in Andorra than Catalan speakers! That Catalan is the only official language does not mean that 99% of people speak Spanish. Have you ever been to Andorra? You seem to be quite ignorant to give me lessons . Travel a bit.
Guest   Tue May 27, 2008 2:01 pm GMT
That Catalan is the only official language does not mean that 99% of people *DON'T * speak Spanish.
realist   Wed May 28, 2008 9:02 am GMT
Not all people in Catalonia are native Catalan speakers and many of the natives also know Spanish along with Catalan. Spanish the only language official throughout ALL of Spain. Besides, Spain isn't the only country with various official regional languages, so I don't see what the big deal is.
Tim   Wed May 28, 2008 9:24 am GMT
"
Guest Sun May 25, 2008 7:42 pm GMT
No. Alsatians are "French"-they should learn both in school if that's what they want. Let me tell you that not all kids have parents who speak Alsatian well now.

That is the consequence of discouraging people from learning Alsatian and not declaring it an official language because nobody chooses freely to forget the language of his parents, specially when Alsatians didn't migrate to anywhere, they still live in their land.
"


Alsace is a special case in France since it has for many (at least 14!) centuries belonged to German sphere and all the historical records and history of Alsace are written in German or Latin. So Alsatian pupils should at least all learn either German or Latin in order to be able to understand their history. As a plus, if they learn High German at school, they will be able to keep their local dialects alive.
K. T.   Wed May 28, 2008 4:36 pm GMT
Tim,

You put my quote with another poster's quote. It doesn't matter, but those are two opinions, not just one, lol.

Alsatians do or did learn Hochdeutsch in school. I'm not sure that it is mandatory. Students who had grandparents who were forced into the German army may still get unfavourable views of Germans.
Guest   Wed May 28, 2008 4:37 pm GMT
Students who had grandparents who were forced into the German army may still get unfavourable views of Germans.

Why? It was an honour for their grandparents.