Japanese place names

Guest   Thu May 29, 2008 8:48 pm GMT
How are you supposed to learn Japanese place names? Their names have irregular readings and sometimes have rare characters and there are so many different places... How can they be learned?
Guest   Thu May 29, 2008 8:57 pm GMT
Also, personal names. I just saw this name in an article, but there are so many ways it could be read. How can I know which is correct?

淳 【じゅん】 Jun (s,f) 【あつし】 Atsushi (g) 【きよし】 Kiyoshi (m) 【すなお】 Sunao (f) 【ただし】 Tadashi (g) 【ひろし】 Hiroshi (g) 【まこと】 Makoto (f) 【あつみ】 Atsumi (g) 【ゆたか】 Yutaka (g) 【あき】 Aki (s,f) 【あつ】 Atsu (s,g) 【あつじ】 Atsuji (u) 【あつのり】 Atsunori (u) 【あつゆき】 Atsuyuki (u) 【きよ】 Kiyo (f) 【しゅん】 Shun (u) 【じゅんじ】 Junji (u) 【すなほ】 Sunaho (f) 【みずほ】 Mizuho (f) 【むねざわ】 Munezawa (u)
Shoh   Fri May 30, 2008 1:03 am GMT
There's no pattern or anything.

For placenames, you can usually find maps with furigana. For given names, you just sorta have to ask, or guess.
J.C.   Fri May 30, 2008 5:48 pm GMT
Welcome to the crazy world of the Japanese language!!!hehe
When it comes to names it's always nice to ask the person how to read his/her name if you're in doubt because even the Japanese do that.
As for place names, they might be tricky to any Japanese visiting a different state.
There are some crazy names from Okinawa:
北谷(chatan), 南風原(Haebaru)、今帰仁(nakijin), 金武(Kin)

How about Hokkaido:
長万部(Oshamanbe), 網走(abashiri), 函館(Hakodate)

In Osaka:
枚方(Hirakata), 交野(katano), 羽曳野(Habikino), 箕面(mino)、泉南(sennan),


and the list goes on and on!!

Cheers!!
J.C.   Fri May 30, 2008 5:56 pm GMT
By the way, where did you get these readings from? Some of these names I've never seen or heard...
Anyway, names and places are special readings for kanjis and must be learned separately.
Good luck!!
Shoh   Sat May 31, 2008 11:21 pm GMT
«There are some crazy names from Okinawa: »

That's because they're not quite Japanese in the conventional sense. They are Ryukuans. They speak a Japonic language, but it's definitely an oddball out of the Japanese dialects.
J.C.   Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:47 am GMT
"That's because they're not quite Japanese in the conventional sense. They are Ryukuans. They speak a Japonic language, but it's definitely an oddball out of the Japanese dialects."
I agree totally with you about that because the Ryukyu kingdom was invaded by the Satsuma clan in the 17th century. After studying 琉球語(首里 dialect only) I really wondered if it can be placed in the same group as Japanese because it's SO different.
Well, Hokkaido is also so different because the Ainus used to live there and the words don't sound like Japanese either.

にへーでーびたん!
Shoh   Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:50 pm GMT
Japanese dialects are CRAZY!! There is such variety.

My mother is from Iwate, and she grew up speaking Tohoku-ben. However, we spoke standard Japanese in the house, so I only heard her speak it on the phone with her siblings. It's quite crazy.

Here's a sample casual conversation in the Iwate dialect:
A: "Imagara dogosa igu?"
B: "Wagarane."
A: "Gakkou igunde negatta?"
B: "Ah-, ndatta, ndatta..."

This is a translation to standard (colloquial) Japanese:
A: "Imakara doko he iku no?"
B: "Wakaranai."
A: "Gakkou he ikunnja nakatta no?"
B: "Ah-, soudatta, soudatta..."

My father is from Nara, and he speaks the Kansai dialect:
A: "Imakara doko ikun?"
B: "Wakaran."
A: "Gakkou ikunchyau?"
B: "Ah-, soyatta, soyatta..."

These are approximate transcriptions, and I probably made a few mistakes in the dialects because I only wrote what I thought sounded right (I only speak standard Japanese). However, they should be relatively close.
Shoh   Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:59 pm GMT
«...because the Ainus used to live there ...»

They still do, but they're a minority, and the Japanese aren't particularly fond of minorities. The Japanese thrive for homogenity, and anyone different is faced with prejudice. I have many friends who are Zainichi Kankoku-jin (Japanese of Korean descent). Their families have lived in Japan for many generations, but it is still VERY difficult to gain citizenship.

Oh, and the Ainu language is not related to Japanese. It is a language isolate, although it is sometimes considered Paleosiberian. (The connection between "Paleosiberian" languages is completely speculative.)
zatsu   Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:58 am GMT
<<Their families have lived in Japan for many generations, but it is still VERY difficult to gain citizenship.>>

Oh, do you mean they don't have Japanese citizenship despite being born in Japan, or that they aren't considered Japanese by the rest of the population?
Sorry about my lack of knowledge on the subject...
guest   Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:47 pm GMT
<<Oh, do you mean they don't have Japanese citizenship despite being born in Japan, or that they aren't considered Japanese by the rest of the population?
Sorry about my lack of knowledge on the subject... >>

They are not citizens. They are classified as legal aliens, still.
This is a concept often difficult for Americans and others to grasp. It is similar in parts of Europe, where even though one is born in a country, citizenship automatically goes to where the parents are citizens. Regardless.
zatsu   Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:24 pm GMT
Wow, really?
Yeah, it's a bit hard to understand. In my country you get the nationality by being born here, and then the parents gain the right to reside here as well.

I know this is out of topic, but what happens then when one of those people marry a Japanese person? Won't their children be Japanese citizens?
Guest   Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:52 pm GMT
Yes, if one of them were to marry a Japanese person, their children would be Japanese citizens.
Shoh   Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:29 am GMT
I was born in Los Angeles to Japanese people. Because Japanese citizenship is hereditary, I am a Japanese citizen. I am also an American citizen because I was born on U.S. soil. I have the right to carry two passports until the age of eighteen (or until I declare citizenship to one country).
J.C.   Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:21 am GMT
Really?
I was looking at the American Consulate homepage and found this:
「米国法は、出生により二重国籍を取得したアメリカ人や、子供の時に第二の国籍を取得したアメリカ人に対して、成人したらどちらかの国籍を選択しなければならないという特別な決まりを設けていません。(Mandoli v. Acheson, 344 US 133 [1952]参照) つまり、現行の米国国籍法は二重国籍について特に言及していません。」
Can't you just keep both passports all the time?
I heard from friends(in Japan) who have double nationality that they had to choose one at the age of 20.

Cheers!!!