The Japanese have fucked up heads?
Learning to read Japanese or Chinese
There's one possibility, and being Japanese myself, I can testify that my people are very much messed up in their thinking (just like any other ethnic group).
But I don't understand why they would think this. There are no historical reasons for the Japanese to be disdainful of the Chinese. If anything, the Japanese should be reverent of them.
But I don't understand why they would think this. There are no historical reasons for the Japanese to be disdainful of the Chinese. If anything, the Japanese should be reverent of them.
Welcome to antimoon! I've seldom seen a Japanese in language forums, really.
I think your English is good enough for you to see why. Now that English is one possible lingua franca among us... go and read wikipedia and see why. Many of us guess that, because the Nationalists couldn't defeat Japan themselves (Americans did it), the Japanese admired the victor (USA) instead of the past teacher (China), and hence the disdain you're thinking of. Of coz, the subsequent dirty commie eras of China make many Chinese look like yahoos from an uncivilized world.
And many of us also think that they can't get a prostitute in your country for ethnic reasons (but the same, they say, applies to all other foreign men).
Though I'm not focusing on my neighboring languages at the moment, I always wish to discuss these sensational matters peacefully with, exactly, educated and polite representatives of their cultures. Many general forums in my language have been littered with all sorts of stupid remarks against everyone foreign.
I think your English is good enough for you to see why. Now that English is one possible lingua franca among us... go and read wikipedia and see why. Many of us guess that, because the Nationalists couldn't defeat Japan themselves (Americans did it), the Japanese admired the victor (USA) instead of the past teacher (China), and hence the disdain you're thinking of. Of coz, the subsequent dirty commie eras of China make many Chinese look like yahoos from an uncivilized world.
And many of us also think that they can't get a prostitute in your country for ethnic reasons (but the same, they say, applies to all other foreign men).
Though I'm not focusing on my neighboring languages at the moment, I always wish to discuss these sensational matters peacefully with, exactly, educated and polite representatives of their cultures. Many general forums in my language have been littered with all sorts of stupid remarks against everyone foreign.
@K.T.
Thanks for the data! Actually I knew that so I could have done the Math =P
If 200 are taught per year, in around 30 weeks of schoolwork, that's about 6,7 per week! Wow
<<let me think, when I was in my primary school, I learned new characters in class. Maybe 10 characters per week. But after I entered high school, I began to learn new characters through many ways. For example, news paper, magzines, TVs, text books. so learning new characters is just a daily practice, and I took it as a piece of cake.>>
Thanks sino! That's was also very helpful.
It's kind of embarrassing when I think back, in Elementary school we learned about a letter per week =/ How relaxed was that?
And yeah, Chinese people use many more characters if compared to Japanese... >.<
Thanks for the data! Actually I knew that so I could have done the Math =P
If 200 are taught per year, in around 30 weeks of schoolwork, that's about 6,7 per week! Wow
<<let me think, when I was in my primary school, I learned new characters in class. Maybe 10 characters per week. But after I entered high school, I began to learn new characters through many ways. For example, news paper, magzines, TVs, text books. so learning new characters is just a daily practice, and I took it as a piece of cake.>>
Thanks sino! That's was also very helpful.
It's kind of embarrassing when I think back, in Elementary school we learned about a letter per week =/ How relaxed was that?
And yeah, Chinese people use many more characters if compared to Japanese... >.<
I believe that kind of disdain always comes from national pride.
No nation likes to think they once "belonged" to some other nation or civilization, unless those are now dead and buried.
So they usually take as their models completely different nations that have nothing to do with them, supposedly very successful, some nation they'd like to (have been related) relate with instead.
This doesn't happen just with Japan.
No nation likes to think they once "belonged" to some other nation or civilization, unless those are now dead and buried.
So they usually take as their models completely different nations that have nothing to do with them, supposedly very successful, some nation they'd like to (have been related) relate with instead.
This doesn't happen just with Japan.
I'm not that far along with my learning of Japanese myself, but my advice is to do a lot of listening and study the kanji, perhaps through a system such as Heisig's - I like it generally but you kind of get out what you put into it (it takes time and real effort). You don't need to know everything there is to know about the characters, but you need to be familiar with a good number of them. As early as possible you definitely need to learn the kana. Then find books with furigana (small kana over the kanji) and read them. There's also a site called hiragana megane that'll add furigana to websites in Japanese. I don't know how accurate it is, though.
http://www.hiragana.jp/en/
You'll find that it helps connect words you've heard with the way they're written and exposes you to different grammar and vocabulary less commonly used in speech.
http://www.hiragana.jp/en/
You'll find that it helps connect words you've heard with the way they're written and exposes you to different grammar and vocabulary less commonly used in speech.
Ah, that seems like a nice approach, bubble.
I realize now that most of you people know more spoken Japanese than written Japanese; it's funny, because my knowledge of the language is probably very close in both fields, since I've been studying both at the same time.
When you talk about the words you've heard before and so on, do you mean like from a CD course, or maybe music and drama and TV shows?
I'm just wondering what works best for you to increase your vocabulary.
I realize now that most of you people know more spoken Japanese than written Japanese; it's funny, because my knowledge of the language is probably very close in both fields, since I've been studying both at the same time.
When you talk about the words you've heard before and so on, do you mean like from a CD course, or maybe music and drama and TV shows?
I'm just wondering what works best for you to increase your vocabulary.
"It seems like people tend to misuse this possessive, as in 之, without knowing its real pronunciation ("no") and its grammatical function. "
Xie: Actually Chinese people mess with the usage of "的" and try to create adjectives or possessive forms like in Chinese.
To everyone in this topic: In order to learn kanjis the only way is to read and write as much as possible!!!(There's no magic formula) I started using a dictionary from 小学館 called 漢字読み書き辞典, which gave the kanjis for Elementary school (1006) and had TONS of examples, which helped not only to memorize the readings but also the way how the word was used. After that I learned to read kanjis using a magazine called Nihongo Journal, which had texts/exercises aimed at students of all levels. One I got used to the magazine I could easily read the 1945 kanjis required to read newspapers and other publications which use this number of characters. When I did my master's I had to read a little more than 3000 characters since the bibliography used old kanjis in addition to 当て字(Kanjis used to express a word that is not Japanese like 合羽(For indicating "capa", which means raincoat in Portuguese, 河童 for the imaginary "kappa") . When I studied for the 漢字検定試験 (Which I didn't apply because I had to go back to Brazil at that time) I had to study kanjis used in 四字熟語 (Words formed by 4 characters such as 一石二鳥、単刀直入,etc) place names, proverbs and other words that are not usually written in kanji like 髭, 薔薇、檸檬、醤油(The first kanji),etc...
頑張ろう！
Xie: Actually Chinese people mess with the usage of "的" and try to create adjectives or possessive forms like in Chinese.
To everyone in this topic: In order to learn kanjis the only way is to read and write as much as possible!!!(There's no magic formula) I started using a dictionary from 小学館 called 漢字読み書き辞典, which gave the kanjis for Elementary school (1006) and had TONS of examples, which helped not only to memorize the readings but also the way how the word was used. After that I learned to read kanjis using a magazine called Nihongo Journal, which had texts/exercises aimed at students of all levels. One I got used to the magazine I could easily read the 1945 kanjis required to read newspapers and other publications which use this number of characters. When I did my master's I had to read a little more than 3000 characters since the bibliography used old kanjis in addition to 当て字(Kanjis used to express a word that is not Japanese like 合羽(For indicating "capa", which means raincoat in Portuguese, 河童 for the imaginary "kappa") . When I studied for the 漢字検定試験 (Which I didn't apply because I had to go back to Brazil at that time) I had to study kanjis used in 四字熟語 (Words formed by 4 characters such as 一石二鳥、単刀直入,etc) place names, proverbs and other words that are not usually written in kanji like 髭, 薔薇、檸檬、醤油(The first kanji),etc...
頑張ろう！
Wow, J.C., very nice of you to share your learning experience! Sounds like quite a journey, an exciting one!!
I should say though, that for a beginner struggling to memorize the first kanjis it may sound quite depressing, lol =P
I should say though, that for a beginner struggling to memorize the first kanjis it may sound quite depressing, lol =P
"Wow, J.C., very nice of you to share your learning experience! Sounds like quite a journey, an exciting one!! "
Hi zatsu-san: I'm glad my experience was useful to someone. To be honest I think people who study Japanese or Chinese freak out too much because of the characters until they get the "gist" to study them. Once one learns the basics it's piece of cake. In this aspect I like the proverb 「石の上にも３年」(Three years on a rock:This proverbs says that one must have patience to do stuff and kanjis can't be memorized and learned properly in a couple of months, rather is a lifetime study)
"I should say though, that for a beginner struggling to memorize the first kanjis it may sound quite depressing, lol =P"
Chill out dude!! Even the Japanese can't read the newspaper until they finish high school!! Learn at your own pace and try to HAVE FUN when you do it.
I used to watch a lot of cartoon (Dragon ball, crayon shinchan(But don't recommend this for people who have children!!), Chibi marukochan, sazae-san,etc), read manga (Shonen jump) and tried to read kanjis in magazines and newspapers (It is also possible to learn kanjis reading the furiganas that appear on difficult kanjis).
Kanjis are difficult but are helpful to understand the news on TV and helped me travel in Taiwan and China when many tourists and foreigners have no idea where they are headed when getting buses of trains.
I'm gonna give you a proverb my teacher in Brazil always used to say:
「虎穴にいらずんば虎子を得ず」
This proverb means "Nought venture, nought have" .
がんばってください！
Hi zatsu-san: I'm glad my experience was useful to someone. To be honest I think people who study Japanese or Chinese freak out too much because of the characters until they get the "gist" to study them. Once one learns the basics it's piece of cake. In this aspect I like the proverb 「石の上にも３年」(Three years on a rock:This proverbs says that one must have patience to do stuff and kanjis can't be memorized and learned properly in a couple of months, rather is a lifetime study)
"I should say though, that for a beginner struggling to memorize the first kanjis it may sound quite depressing, lol =P"
Chill out dude!! Even the Japanese can't read the newspaper until they finish high school!! Learn at your own pace and try to HAVE FUN when you do it.
I used to watch a lot of cartoon (Dragon ball, crayon shinchan(But don't recommend this for people who have children!!), Chibi marukochan, sazae-san,etc), read manga (Shonen jump) and tried to read kanjis in magazines and newspapers (It is also possible to learn kanjis reading the furiganas that appear on difficult kanjis).
Kanjis are difficult but are helpful to understand the news on TV and helped me travel in Taiwan and China when many tourists and foreigners have no idea where they are headed when getting buses of trains.
I'm gonna give you a proverb my teacher in Brazil always used to say:
「虎穴にいらずんば虎子を得ず」
This proverb means "Nought venture, nought have" .
がんばってください！
J.C. の国籍は何ですか? 日本語と英語が上手で少し感心してます。僕は二世の日系アメリカ人です。一年生から中学校まで日本語学校へ通いました。(It was actually a Japanese Saturday school program). I grew up speaking Japanese in the house and English at school. Anyway, I'm very interested in how you came to know Japanese and English so well. Also, do you know any other languages?
(I really don't mean to always go off topic.)
(I really don't mean to always go off topic.)
「J.C. の国籍は何ですか? 日本語と英語が上手で少し感心してます。僕は二世の日系アメリカ人です。一年生から中学校まで日本語学校へ通いました。」
shohさん：ご質問をして頂き、ありがとうございます。私はブラジル生まれブラジル育ちで現在日本に住んでいますが人種的にまったく日本とは関係がありません。とはいえ、１２歳の時から柔道を練習し始めたため、「払い腰」、「背負い投げ」などといった技の意味を知りたかったため、日本語の勉強を始めました。そのあと大学にて日本語を専門として習い始め、日本で修士号を取得しました。
英語に対する情熱は中学校の時代に始まりましたが独学で歌詞を翻訳しはじめ、ついでに雑誌の通読にも努力しました。その結果、１７歳の時に流暢な英語で話せるようになりました。
英語と日本語以外、ドイツ語（大学で第二言語でした）とスペイン語（ポルトガル語に近いため、戸惑う時もあります）が堪能です。最近になってフランス語、ロシア語と中国語に夢中です。宜しくお願い致します。
shohさん：ご質問をして頂き、ありがとうございます。私はブラジル生まれブラジル育ちで現在日本に住んでいますが人種的にまったく日本とは関係がありません。とはいえ、１２歳の時から柔道を練習し始めたため、「払い腰」、「背負い投げ」などといった技の意味を知りたかったため、日本語の勉強を始めました。そのあと大学にて日本語を専門として習い始め、日本で修士号を取得しました。
英語に対する情熱は中学校の時代に始まりましたが独学で歌詞を翻訳しはじめ、ついでに雑誌の通読にも努力しました。その結果、１７歳の時に流暢な英語で話せるようになりました。
英語と日本語以外、ドイツ語（大学で第二言語でした）とスペイン語（ポルトガル語に近いため、戸惑う時もあります）が堪能です。最近になってフランス語、ロシア語と中国語に夢中です。宜しくお願い致します。