Do people think only through their mother tougue?

kawaii   Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:02 am GMT
Is there anyone that can think through his/her second language?

For example, if one's mother speaks German and his/her father speaks French, ther could he/she think through both German and French?
Guest   Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:08 am GMT
Yes it's a common phenomenon. It's often called fluency.
Earle   Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:06 pm GMT
Most of our thoughts are non-verbal...
Xie   Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:38 am GMT
Me, yes. My language's prepositions are similar to those of Esperanto, except I don't know "je". They make perfect sense in almost everything - even without this wildcard "je". This is at least one part that could be intuitive even to others.
Guest   Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:41 am GMT
Why do they say mother tongue and not father tongue?
kawaii   Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:50 am GMT
1. Mothers spend more time with their babies than fathers do. And it is mothers who teach their babies to speak.

2, As some philosophiers indicated, people's thinking is based on concepts, which is of the language.
Guest   Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:59 am GMT
Also like mother Earth.
If women really wanted, they could rule the world, lol
guest   Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:07 pm GMT
<<If women really wanted, they could rule the world, lol >>

They already do

back to the subject though, it's even possible to dream in other languages. this is one of the tests to see if you're really fluent in that language--when you begin to dream in it
Guest   Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:01 pm GMT
>Why do they say mother tongue and not father tongue?<
It's easier to know who is your mother than who is your...OK?
Guest   Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:03 pm GMT
Who cares. I will call it father tongue from now on. I'm tired of this sick feminist supremacism.
K. T.   Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:29 pm GMT
Of course you can think in other languages. It's very natural to do this after you are familiar with another language. You don't even have to be fully fluent for this to happen.

I don't "translate" when I read other languages most of the time. I think some people do this, but I'm not sure WHY they do this. Training in grammar/translation? I don't find that not translating prevents me from being able to translate when asked to do so.


"this is one of the tests to see if you're really fluent in that language--when you begin to dream in it" guest

I disagree with that often-quoted idea. I start dreaming in most languages I start learning whether or not I am fluent-from almost the first day. I actually don't like this. I have restless sleep. I hear and see words in the new characters in my sleep.
P.D.   Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:33 pm GMT
Yes, you can 'think' in a second, third, etc language. That is the basic essence of fluency. I have been told that to know you are fluent in a second language, with native or near-native comprehension, you should be able to 1. dream, and 2. make love, in that second (third, etc) language. In learning a second language, we of course still think in our native language and do quick translations in our mind to procude language in the new language. There will though, usually be interference from the native language into the new, even after years of fluency. This even happens with native bilinguals.

Another good test..is how we produce words for symbols, like numbers. I have known people who speak excellent Spanish as a second language but still think of their native word for the symbol when they see it. When you 'think' CINCO when visualizing the symbol '5' instead of immediately thinking "FIVE" upon seing that symbol. I know former Spanish majors who speak and read/write well, then say something, usually uttered to themselves, to the effect of 'ella se naciĆ³ el tres de mayo de nineteen seventy'. In a Spanish speaking environment, you should think 'pare' when seing a large red octagon at an intersection, rather than thinking 'stop'. That is fluency.
K. T.   Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:51 pm GMT
"with native or near-native comprehension, you should be able to 1. dream, and 2. make love, in that second (third, etc) language."

Who are you? Willie Nelson? Julio Iglesias? A sailor? I could give some other examples, but they would be rather inflammatory.

Sorry, but I don't think that number two is a valid test for fluency. Some people think that the greatest polyglot was an Italian cardinal. There isn't any way to know for sure, but excepting "fun" or "shock" value, that is no way to judge someone's language skills.

"do quick translations in our mind"

I did this on purpose in French when I was a teenager, not since. I disagree. Maybe this is what you do, but I don't do this now.

"you should think 'pare' when seing a large red octagon at an intersection, rather than thinking 'stop'. That is fluency"

Sorry, but I disagree with you on this as well. If you want to use this to train yourself, sure, but I certainly don't want to limit myself to one or two words for a concept. When I see a stop sign in Japanese, I know that I must stop, period. When someone tells me that their son has
diabetes in another language, I know what it is, I don't have to come up with the word in English unless I have to interpret.

The only time I have to "translate" is when I come across a word I don't know and I am unable to piece it out. My idea for languages is to go for concepts. Almost all children learn a language, so it really doesn't matter which language we learn for concepts, imo.
Xie   Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:03 am GMT
>>I start dreaming in most languages I start learning whether or not I am fluent-from almost the first day.

I can't get anywhere close to it, except that ... I saw viruses in my dream, which nod32 cannot kill. LOL

I'm a heavy visual learner... I can crack open very unphonetic words (English, French) easily... but no, I never have linguistic dreams in any language. My native script still makes perfect sense to me, and all other scripts, no. I read them to get ideas only. If I could see a Chinese FSI scale before I die, it must be something like... as if every language is as difficult as the CJKA languages in the American. I think the JK should be fairly moderate, like German and French for Anglophones, but English... English might still be close to Hungarian in the American scale.

Indeed, I know that the word order and particles don't make very good sense; but the intrinsic meanings are all so succinct, without all those superfluous morphemes and, the worst of all, irregular endings and cases. Yet, many natives still claim it's a vague language. (Ironically, though, it's Greek to me and Je ne sais quoi aren't common phrases in my language)
Guest   Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:09 am GMT
<< In a Spanish speaking environment, you should think 'pare' when seing a large red octagon at an intersection, rather than thinking 'stop'. That is fluency. >>

Really? I'm a native Spanish speaker (also live in a Spanish speaking country") and I do think "stop" when seeing a large red octagon. I would never think "pare". In fact when I was a child I thought "stop" was Spanish because it appeared everywhere.