Where do Korean and Japanese language originate from?

J.C.   Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:13 pm GMT
"Off the top of my head, I recall that "city" "breifcase" and "milk" seem similar to me in both Korean and Japanese."
K.T: Thanks for your clever observation. Toshi, kaban and "yunyu"(This one is a little different from Japanese) are quite similar but words can be misleading because there might be borrowing of words alone.
I guess grammar is the best way to see languages.
Regardless of what linguist say about Korean and Japanese, Koreans who come to study in Japan learn to speak Japanese super fast and have no problem with grammar since both Korean and Japanese use SOV.
Also, Korean and Japanese use "ka" as a final particle for question and the form "to try" is formed by verb+see like たべてみる/모고보다, verbs might be formed by noun+to do like 勉強する/곤부하다. I guess I'll have to take a look again at a contrastive study I read some years ago.

Cheers!!
Shoh   Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:49 pm GMT
«곤부하다.»

I do believe it is 공부한다. Although, I have heard it both "하다 as well as 한다".

«Toshi, kaban and "yunyu"(This one is a little different from Japanese) are quite similar but words can be misleading because there might be borrowing of words alone. »

Aside from that many 熟語 in Japanese and Korean are very close (there tends to be a pattern that emerges when comparing them) because they are derived from Chinese.
Guest   Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:08 pm GMT
<<,모고보다>>

What does this mean???

먹고보는 말입니까? to try to eat?

what is "yunyu"? the Japanese word for milk?

Korean is 우유 ("uyu"), or "milku" (borrowed)
Guest   Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:31 pm GMT
The Japanese for milk is "gyuunyuu" and it's a Chinese loan word, so it doesn't count anyway.
J.C.   Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:01 pm GMT
「먹고보는 말입니까? to try to eat? 」
Thanks for the correction but I think there's a less formal way of saying that... I just tried to say that the expression "to try"
uses the same structure in Japanese and Korean. in Japanese is the form --te+miru(see) in Korean is the form -go + boda (see). Sorry but I haven't studied Korean for years...

「what is "yunyu"? the Japanese word for milk?」
Actually is "gyuunyuu" (牛乳)and therefore close to 우유 but as you said these are borrowings and don't indicate that a language is related to the other.

But I still wonder why most of the people applying for the 1st level of the JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test) are KOREANS(Topic here) and Chinese even though they don't study as hard as people who have western languages are native languages...

안녕!
zatsu   Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:28 pm GMT
^but isn't the 1st level of JLPT the highest one?
It could mean that Korean and Chinese are looking for a fluency certificate, while much less Western people have actually reached that level yet.
J.C.   Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:35 am GMT
"It could mean that Korean and Chinese are looking for a fluency certificate, while much less Western people have actually reached that level yet."
that's the point zatsu-san! Even though many westerners try, it is VERY difficult to get the 1kyuu. Personally I don't have it because I'm always sleeping during the 読解 part of the test!! :) Also, I don't like that nasty listening test when that kind of Japanese will never be heard in Osaka!!hehe
But seriously, everytime I tried the 1kyu in Japan there were only Chinese and Koreans with exception of me and another westerner. In Brazil most people applying for 1kyu were nikkeis.
I really gotta read "The Japanese language" by Andrew Miller again so I can have a better perspective of the relationshio between Korean and Japanese.
I also found this link interesting:
http://arutkural.tripod.com/tolcampus/jap-tamil.htm
L'italofilo   Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:05 am GMT
Korean Hanja/Japanese Kanji(漢字)、Korean/Japanese Herbalist(漢方医)、Confucianism Culture(儒教)、actually derived from ancient CHINA thoroughly. Without the copy of language and culture, Korean characters would not be formed in a standardized style, and neither would Japanese.
J.C.   Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:19 am GMT
"Korean Hanja/Japanese Kanji(漢字)、Korean/Japanese Herbalist(漢方医)、Confucianism Culture(儒教)、actually derived from ancient CHINA thoroughly."
L'italofilo: Totally agree with you that all this stuff comes from China but it seems that the confucianism UTTERLY disappeared in Japan since there's no respect for the elders and most people don't even bother giving their sets to older people on buses or trains. Things are the opposite in Korea, where younger people even refrain from smoking in front of older people.

Cheers!!
L'italofilo   Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:25 am GMT
When it comes to the topic of "homonymic words" which occurs in both Korean and Japanese, I do insist that the best way for avoiding confusion is to write Hanja/Kanji, so that people would be able to understand the meanings at the first sight while reading them. Unfortunately, Korea people has given up using Hanja for a long time despite rational requirement, while Japanese people keep a clear mind to use Kanji everywhere and all the time.
Guest   Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:55 am GMT
Chinese characters suck. The Koreans knew what they were doing.
Guest   Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:05 am GMT
《Guest
Chinese characters suck. The Koreans knew what they were doing.》


How can a student abuse his teacher after he get knowledge and education from this teacher? If he can, he will not be regarded as an eligible student.
Guest   Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:08 am GMT
Any good teacher would realize that their students should eventually grow to the point where they no longer need their teacher anymore.
L'italofilo   Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:22 am GMT
Guest
Any good teacher would realize that their students should eventually grow to the point where they no longer need their teacher anymore.


OK, let me say something again. I agree with you, and I would like to ask you only one question.

Do you think it would be useless or helpless for Korean people to use Hanja in order to avoid much confusion when you write or read "homonymic words"? You're sure that you've never met with the problem of different meanings?
L'italofilo   Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:31 am GMT
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본 本

볼 乶

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북 北

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불 不 佛 岪 弗 彿 拂 茀 祓 紱 艴 韍 髴 黻

붕 堋 崩 漰 朋 棚 硼 繃 鬅 鵬

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빈 儐 份 嚬 嬪 彬 擯 浜 濱 瀕 蘋 邠 斌 檳 殯 牝 玭 矉 繽 臏 豳 貧 賓 鑌 霦 頻 顰 鬂 鬢

빙 冰 凭 凴 娉 憑 氷 聘 靐 騁

사 乍 事 些 仕 伺 似 使 俟 傞 僿 剚 卸 缷 史 司 咋 唆 嗣 四 士 奢 姒 娑 寫 寺 射 巳 師 徙 捨 汜 沙 泗 渣 瀉 獅莎 蓑 邪 思 斜 斯 柶 査 梭 楂 榭 死 祠 痧 皶 砂 社 祀 私 竢 笥 篩 紗 絲 耜 肆 舍 蛇 蜡 裟 覗 詐 詞 謝 賜 赦辭 飼 駟 駛 魦 鯊 鰤 麝

삭 削 蒴 數 朔 槊 爍 索 鑠

산 傘 刪 剷 姍 孿 山 汕 潸 澘 狻 蒜 散 橵 毿 珊 産 疝 算 繖 訕 酸 鏟 閊 霰

살 乷 撒 薩 殺 煞

삼 三 參 渗 芟 蔘 杉 森 衫 糝 釤 鬖

삽 卅 唼 揷 澁 歃 翣 鈒 鍤 霅 霎 颯

상 上 傷 像 償 商 喪 嘗 塽 孀 尙 峠 常 床 庠 廂 徜 湘 想 晌 桑 橡 殤 爽 牀 狀 祥 甞 相 箱 緗 翔 裳 觴 詳 象 賞 鎟 霜 顙 鬺

새 塞 璽 賽 鰓

색 嗇 塞 濇 瀒 槭 穡 索 色

생 牲 生 甥 省 眚 笙 鉎

서 噬 墅 壻 婿 嶼 序 庶 徐 抒 捿 揟 撕 湑 澨 芧 薯 恕 敍 暑 曙 書 栖 棲 犀 瑞 逝 署 筮 紓 絮 緖 耡 胥 舒 西 誓 諝 鉏 鋤 黍 鼠

석 夕 奭 席 惜 汐 淅 潟 蓆 昔 晳 晰 析 石 矽 碩 腊 舃 蜥 釋 鉐 錫 鼫

선 仙 僊 先 善 墡 嫙 嬋 宣 尟 尠 屳 愃 渲 蘚 扇 敾 旋 歚 煽 熯 琁 瑄 璇 璿 選 禪 癬 筅 綫 線 繕 羨 腺 膳 船 蟬 詵 譔 譱 跣 銑 鏇 鐥 饍 騸 鮮 鱓 鱻

설 偰 卨 媟 屑 揲 泄 洩 渫 薛 暬 楔 爇 碟 稧 紲 舌 褻 設 說 雪 齧

섬 剡 孅 憸 摻 陝 暹 殲 睒 纖 蟾 譫 贍 銛 閃 韱

섭 囁 懾 攝 涉 灄 葉 燮 聶 躡 鑷 顳

성 城 姓 宬 性 惺 猩 成 星 晟 珹 瑆 盛 省 筬 聖 聲 腥 誠 醒 騂

세 世 勢 帨 洗 洒 歲 稅 笹 細 繐 蛻 說 貰

소 佋 俏 卲 召 嗉 嘯 埽 塑 塐 宵 小 少 巢 捎 掃 搔 沼 泝 消 溯 瀟 蔬 蕭 蘇 邵 愬 所 昭 梳 樔 炤 燒 逍 遡 甦 疏 疎 瘙 笑 筱 箾 篠 簫 素 紹 繅 翛 膆 艘 蛸 訴 踈 酥 銷 霄 韶 騷 魈 鮹 鰺

속 俗 屬 洬 涑 束 速 遬 粟 續 謖 贖

손 孫 巽 損 蓀 遜 飡 飧 飱

솔 率 窣 蟀

송 宋 悚 淞 松 柗 送 竦 訟 誦 頌 鬆

쇄 刷 灑 惢 曬 殺 瑣 碎 鎖

쇠 衰 釗

수 修 受 叟 售 嗽 囚 垂 壽 嫂 守 岫 峀 帥 廋 授 搜 泅 洙 溲 漱 濉 狩 茱 蒐 蓚 藪 陲 隋 隧 隨 愁 戍 手 收 數 晬樹 殊 殳 水 燧 獸 琇 璲 遂 邃 祟 瘦 睡 睟 睢 瞍 秀 穗 竪 袖 籔 粹 綏 綬 繡 羞 脩 脺 膄 膸 誰 讐 讎 豎 輸 酬銖 銹 雖 需 須 颼 饈 首 髓 鬚

숙 俶 倏 儵 叔 塾 夙 婌 孰 宿 淑 潚 菽 橚 熟 琡 璹 肅 驌 鷫

순 侚 巡 徇 循 恂 洵 淳 狥 荀 蓴 蕣 旬 栒 楯 橓 殉 珣 盾 盹 眴 瞬 筍 紃 純 肫 脣 舜 詢 諄 醇 錞 順 馴 駨 鬊 鶉

술 戌 述 絉 術 鉥

숭 崇 崧 嵩 菘

쉬 倅 淬 焠

슬 瑟 膝 虱 蝨

습 慴 拾 濕 隰 熠 褶 習 襲

승 丞 乘 僧 勝 升 塍 陞 承 昇 繩 蠅 鬙

시 侍 偲 兕 匙 厮 啻 嘶 塒 始 媤 尸 屍 屎 市 廝 弑 恃 澌 猜 蒔 蓍 施 是 時 枾 柴 枲 柹 矢 示 緦 翅 翤 視 試 詩 諡 諟 諰 豉 豕 豺 釃 鍉 顋

식 喰 埴 媳 寔 式 拭 湜 息 栻 植 殖 熄 篒 蝕 識 軾 食 飾

신 伸 侁 信 呻 哂 噺 囟 姺 娠 宸 愼 汛 莘 薪 藎 新 晨 燼 迅 神 申 矧 紳 脤 腎 臣 蜃 訊 贐 身 辛 辰 頣 駪

실 失 室 實 悉 蟋 飋

심 審 尋 沁 沈 深 潯 瀋 芯 葚 心 梣 燖 甚 諶 鐔 鱏

십 什 十 拾 辻

쌍 雙

씨 氏