HOW CAN I LEARN FRENCH PRONUNCIATION?

Marius   Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:20 am GMT
I am Romanian student trying to learn French. I find it very easy to learn the French vocabulary, and the French grammar because Romanian and French have 75 % lexical similarity, both being Romance languages. However I find it more difficult than Italian (the easiest for me to learn) or Spanish.

Knowing English helped me a lot, because French uses some words that are not present in any other Latin language, but are present in English. The French "Danger" is not present in Romanian (we say Periculos) or Italian (Pericoloso) but is identical in English, there are many other similar cases.

My big problem is the French pronunciation! I am a native Romanian (Romance language speaker) and I can pronounce Italian or Spanish just like the native Spaniards or Italians. I am so frustrated being unable to pronounce French properly. French sounds like no other Latin language (I really like that, it's a beautiful language) but is a nightmare for me to pronounce some French words.

For example the French RUE (street) I can't seem to get the right sound for it, to sound like the native speaker. To me it sounds like the German "ö" from "ich möchte" but there is something else.

1.Is there a method to get the right pronunciation?
2.I would like to know how difficult is for other romance speakers (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc) to pronounce French (closer to French native speakers)

Thanks for reading!
Guest   Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:40 am GMT
"qu'est-ce que c'est que ça"
try to say that! very difficult...
Guest   Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:28 am GMT
En mi trabajo hay uno que se llama como tu, Marius, supongo que sera como Pepe para nosotros... mi consejo es mandar a tomar por culo ese idioma subdesarrollado y aprender lenguas útiles.
Gast   Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:36 am GMT
"I can pronounce Italian or Spanish just like the native Spaniards."
— Good. But please don't let yourself contaminate with the rudeness of that ill-mannered breed of people (a typical instance os Hispanic trolling above).

"To me it sounds like the German "ö" from "ich möchte" but there is something else."
— No. French 'u' is like German 'ü' (/y/).
German 'ö' is like the French 'eu'-sound, pronounced /œ/ or /ø/, depending of words.
Example: in "je veux" (I want), the first 'e' is pronounced /œ/, the latter is /ø/ (a sharper variant).

I had an American girl-friend who spoke a little French and German (very poorly actually) but was able to pronounce a flawless 'ü' (which is quite rare for Americans). She told me her teacher had his own method: "Say a 'ee' sound, then round your lips like for whistling, and here's a 'ü'!"

Kudos to that unknown teacher. His trick works very well.
Xie   Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:54 pm GMT
I learned from multiple pron. guides. First, I read the chart that lists all possible combinations of letters (ai is an open e, é is usually a closed e), and then I also found any differences there might be regarding assimilation, like aimer is not Eme but eme, because -er (like é) will make the preceding ai (which is supposed to be like è) more like a closed vowel.

That said, I try to check less because all I have to do is to listen, not read transcriptions. I think, at the moment, as a beginner, if you can't speak it, don't speak it - if you don't know whether the ending letter of a word should be pronounced, listen to recordings; or if you must refrain from reading IPA, just assume that letter is mute. The same applies to anything like ai of the above verb, aimer. If you don't know aimer is eme (instead of Eme), before you get corrected, just assume ai is like è. I think this sounds better than reading IPA all the time. Some words aren't even transcribed anyway (like était, or tu es, which is actually quite obvious), so what the whole fuss is about?
Xie   Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:57 pm GMT
It sounds a bit... not good, but I don't want to write too much. My point is just: don't over-analyze words.
Guest   Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:13 pm GMT
Try watching Nouvelle Vague movies.
K. T.   Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:22 pm GMT
I suggest "Pronounce it Perfectly in French" in the Barron's series. There is a small book and recordings. I would recommend the series for Spanish, English, etc. I think you can find it on Amazon. There is nothing like hearing how to pronounce a language from a native speaker.

Wish you the best.
Guest   Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:50 pm GMT
Obviamente es imposible aprender a pronunciar correctamente ese idioma de salvajes, afortunadamente para ti, ya hablas español e ingles, asi que no necesitas aprender nada mas, saludos.
Guest   Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:12 pm GMT
El frances sería como mamar un rabo, asique o te gusta ese rollo, o ni lo intentes...
K. T.   Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:36 pm GMT
Other than Spanish and English, what would you recommend?
greg   Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:53 pm GMT
Marius : « The French "Danger" is not present in Romanian (we say Periculos) or Italian (Pericoloso) [...] ».

Rectif : It <pericoloso> c'est Fr <dangereux> /dɑ̃ʒəʁø/ ou <périlleux> /peʁijø/ tandis que It <pericolo> c'est Fr <danger> /dɑ̃ʒe/ ou <péril> /peʁil/.




Marius : « For example the French RUE (street) I can't seem to get the right sound for it, to sound like the native speaker. To me it sounds like the German "ö" from "ich möchte" but there is something else. »

Je dirais plutôt que le <ö> de Al <möchte> /mœçtə/ est plus proche du <eu> de Fr <beurre> /bœʁ/.

Le <u> français que tu trouves dans Fr <rue> /ʁy/ est voisin du <ü> (mais plus bref) et du <y> allemands, comme dans Al <üben> /yːbən/ (long) et <Physik> /fyziːk/ (bref) respectivement.

Pour prononcer [y], tu pars de [i] comme dans Fr <riz> /ʁi/ ou <si> /si/, et tu arrondis les lèvres sans cesser de prononcer.




Marius : « Is there a method to get the right pronunciation? ».

Essaie ces liens :
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Annexe:Prononciation
http://swac-collections.org/?lang=fra
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Annexe:Écriture_des_sons_en_français




'Guest' : « qu'est-ce que c'est que ça ».

C'est pas très dur : /kɛskəseksa/.
Josh   Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:06 pm GMT
<<Other than Spanish and English, what would you recommend? >>

I recommend Polari.
Guest   Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:36 pm GMT
Oye ¿que pasa aqui? ¿el censor esta haciendo horas extras?
Marius   Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:22 am GMT
Thank you greg, I appreciate your advise, I hope you understand why I am so frustrated. I was told by many people that I am supposed to learn French faster that other non Latin people, because I speak other Romance languages. Ok, that's correct regarding the French lexicon, many French words are like Italian or Romanian (both languages that I can master well) and Spanish (moderately)

I can tell you that despite speaking Romance languages like Romanian, Italian, moderate Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese, I get no help regarding the French pronunciation, and just by knowing many Latin words, that I'm unable to pronounce means nothing. My French books are useless and unimaginative regarding pronunciation. Maybe the best way to learn French pronunciation is to learn it in France, learn the melody, stress, accent and intonation, just like a newborn.

greg, what do you think about Parisian accent? Shall I go and study French in Paris or Toulouse? any ideas about studying in France?

Merci!