Which language is more important, French or Spanish?

I doubt Portuguese will become extinct anytime soon. As a language that has been in use for well over 500 years, I think Portuguese is here to stay. If what you say is true, then the number of students learning the language as a second or third language will drop, but as long as the Portuguese and Brazilian people exist, their language will continue to thrive.
<<African countries make the poorest Latin American nation look like a first-world country so I wouldn't get to excited. >>

The economic superiority of the countries that speak the language doesnt designate the number of people that will speak it, only the number that are willing to learn it in far-away nations. Spanish would be still be useful in the U.S. if Latin America were to become the poorest region on Earth. There would still be some 40 milllion speakers in the U.S.

But only the future can tell what's in store for the Portuguese language.

Speaking of Portuguese, can anybody tell me where I can find some simple rules that can apply to Spanish words to change them to portuguese?
I've seen the french ones, like....
GN=Ñ (Espa>gn<e = Espa>ñ<a), E to A endings (Espagn>e< = Españ>a<), Je = Yo, Tu = Tu, Vous = Vos, Il = El, Elle = Ella, Ills=Ellos, Elles = Ellas, etc.

Craig. Wikpedia may not be the best source of information, but the information on the status of the Portuguese language is accurate enough. And since you don't seem to care about the Portuguese language, how would you know what is accurate or not about its current status anyway? This is an informal, leave-your-attitude-at-the-door kind of forum. So do us all a favour and please dispense with your haughty, holier-than-now attitude. Oh, and by the way, Galego-Portuguese was the preferred language of the Spanish corte for a long time, for the simple reason that it sounded 'soft and pleasant' to the ears of the great Spanish poets of the time. And standard Castillian is a harsh sounding language compared to the soft sounding Portuguese. I myself love the Spanish language, but don't start making up bullshit about the Portuguese language. If you don't like it, don't learn it - trust me, you won't hurt my feelings. You say that all Portuguese speakers would be better off adopting the Spanish language. We understand it perfectly, and many of us even speak it fluently, but listen buddy, don't think for a minute that we would trade our beloved language for any other one, ever. I've got news for you Craig....Portuguese is not going to go away. There are more and more people in the world learning it as a second language. If it were a dying language, this would not be the case. Compreendes? Jorge.

When it comes to French pronunciation, a great deal of people praise French to be the most beautiful and most euphonious language in the world, and then Spanish apparently should be the 2nd beautiful language.
Making mention of the language's Euphony, in my mind, Italian sounds very worthy of being the most beautiful and most melodic language, and the second beautiful one must be Portuguese, the third one is Spanish, and the fourth one is French. My opinion doesn't consider the usefulness.

<<but the information on the status of the Portuguese language is accurate enough.>>

I concur with Craig. The claim that that Portuguese is the language with the "higher potentiality of growth" sounds a little fishy and suspect to me. It could well be that insecure Portuguese-speakers are writing false propaganda about their language in the hope that some naive souls will fall into the trap and fooled into learning Portuguese.

<<And since you don't seem to care about the Portuguese language, how would you know what is accurate or not about its current status anyway? This is an informal, leave-your-attitude-at-the-door kind of forum. So do us all a favour and please dispense with your haughty, holier-than-now attitude.>>

I think he's just telling it like it is. Calling a spade a spade and not a shovel if you know what I mean. You should appreciate his honest assesment instead of acting childish and immature.

<<Oh, and by the way, Galego-Portuguese was the preferred language of the Spanish corte for a long time, for the simple reason that it sounded 'soft and pleasant' to the ears of the great Spanish poets of the time.>>

Really? That's the first time I've heard of this. Can you direct me to internet sites that verify these "facts"?

<<And standard Castillian is a harsh sounding language compared to the soft sounding Portuguese. I myself love the Spanish language, but don't start making up bullshit about the Portuguese language.>>

It's a subjetive preference I guess. I've heard Portuguese from Portugal and Brazil and quite frankly both dialects leave me cold. As others have mentioned, Portuguese is a very nasal language and nasality starts to grate on me after a couple of minutes. Personally the only people I know that are interested in learning a bit of Portuguese are gringo sex tourists who head down to Brazil every year and I doubt it's because they have a profound love of Brazilian language and culture. On the other hand Spanish from Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and even Colombia is music to my ears! I can never get enough of it. I can listen to Spanish-speakers from those regions for hours on end without batting an eye lid. Their accents are harmonious, enchanting and hyptonic. You are right about Peninsular Spanish though, their accent are very harsh and monotonous the American versions are a vast improvement.

<<You say that all Portuguese speakers would be better off adopting the Spanish language. We understand it perfectly, and many of us even speak it fluently, but listen buddy, don't think for a minute that we would trade our beloved language for any other one, ever. I've got news for you Craig....Portuguese is not going to go away. There are more and more people in the world learning it as a second language. If it were a dying language, this would not be the case. Compreendes? Jorge.>>

I think Craig is onto something. It will help Brazil immensely and make South America a stronger region financially and that can't be a bad thing. All Brazilians will be doing is leaving a pretty language for a beautiful and gorgeous language.

<<As a language that has been in use for well over 500 years, I think Portuguese is here to stay. >>

Current advancaments in technology are bringing nations closer together, something that hasn't been available in the past 500 years. Due to that Craig is correct in saying it's almost inevitable that Brazil will be influenced by the sea of Spanish-speaking countries. If Spanish doesn't replace Portuguese then some other mixture will.

<<Making mention of the language's Euphony, in my mind, Italian sounds very worthy of being the most beautiful and most melodic language, and the second beautiful one must be Portuguese, the third one is Spanish, and the fourth one is French. My opinion doesn't consider the usefulness.>>

My rankings in terms of euphony:

1. French and Spanish tied together in first place. I cannot separate them
.
.
3. Italian. I'm ambivalent about this language. It's neither here nor there.
.
.
.
.
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4. Portuguese way way way back in last place. Not pleasant at all.

Craig Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:51 pm GMT

««It's unlikely that portuguese will ever be an important international language.»»

The Portuguese language was spread worldwide in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. It was the first European language spread all over the known world.
Even being spoken by poor countries it is the six most spoken language in the world, that means even without economic power or technology backing it up, Portuguese manages to be one of the most spoken languages in the world. It is an international language spoken in four continents. If even being a language of poor people has such an international projection just imagine when economic power starts to power up the language. No one stays poor for ever.
Portuguese speaking countries are very rich in natural resources.

««In the Americas, Brazil is a large nation but still very much third-world and surrounded by a sea of Spanish-speaking nations which are growing by leaps and bounds , will probably eventually succumb to Spanish or a mixture as it predicted by some scholars.»»

Portugal is surrounded by Spain and the sea and is so much smaller than Brazil it is a good example how predictions and prophecies should only be interpreted by druids.
Not even in Spain Catalan, Euskara or Galician succumbed to Castilian.
Not even Spain was able to make Castilian the only language, and each time more, the interest for other Spanish languages is growing in Spain.


««Spanish is a mcuh more melodic, sweet elegant language than the overly nasal Portuguese anyhow. All Portuguese speakers would be better off adopting Spanish instead of stubbornly persevering with portuguese.»»

“stubbornly persevering with Portuguese” Portuguese people are stubbornly Portuguese, small countries are made by stubborn, proud people that is why Portugal made a “language empire” before any other European nation.

Better off? Some, not many, years ago before Spain joined the EU, Spain was one of the poorest countries in Europe, and Latin American Spanish speaking countries are not better off than Brazil. Give time to time.

Mike Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:54 am GMT

[<<Oh, and by the way, Galego-Portuguese was the preferred language of the Spanish corte for a long time, for the simple reason that it sounded 'soft and pleasant' to the ears of the great Spanish poets of the time.>>

Really? That's the first time I've heard of this. Can you direct me to internet sites that verify these "facts"?]


You can find some bellow if you are interested I can easily find a lot more, the web is full of articles about Galician-Portuguese medieval literature and it is very important in the study of the literature of Spain.


In the Middle Ages, Galaico-português (or Portuguese-Galician) was a language of culture, poetry, and religion throughout not only Galicia and Portugal, but also Castile (where Castilian was used mainly for prose). (wikipedia)

“Entre los siglos XII e XIV el gallego se convierte en la lengua por excelencia de toda la lírica de la Península. En rigor debemos hablar de lírica gallego-portuguesa. Esta es la etapa de mayor esplendor de la literatura gallega. La lengua gallega se convierte en la lengua por excelencia de la lírica de toda la península excepto Cataluña (poesía trovadoresca). El gallego alcanza ahora el rango de lengua internacional, ya que está presente tanto en autores (gallegos, portugueses, castellanos, occitanos, sicilianos, etc) como en cortes reales y señoriales (Santiago, Toledo, Coímbra, Lisboa).
Prueba de esto es la “Carta al Condestable de Portugal” escrita por el Marqués de Santillana donde dice:
“E después fallaron esta arte que mayor se llama e el arte común, creo, en los reynos de Gallicia e Portugal, donde non es de dubdar que el exercicio destas sciencias más que en ningunas otras regiones e provincias de España se acostumbró; en tanto grado que non ha mucho tiempo qualesquier decidores e trovadores destas partes, agora fuesen castellanos, andaluces o de la Extremadura, todas sus obras componían en lengua gallega o portuguesa”
http://html.rincondelvago.com/lirica-galaicoportuguesa.html
http://www.galego.org/espannol/visita/medieval.html
http://www.juanalfonsodebaena.org/JUANALFONSOCONTE.htm


”Aún así, a partir de finales del XIII, y más significativamente en los siglos XIV-XV, los temas de mayor difusión en la Europa medieval se recogen en lengua gallega. Muestra son los relatos del ciclo bretón en torno a la figura del rey Arturo, los textos referentes a la historia y destrucción de Troya, como la Historia Troiana y la Crónica Troiana; y los Miragres de Santiago, conjunto de relatos que cuentan desde la destrucción de Jerusalén hasta la milagrosa intervención del Apóstol en diferentes situaciones. Se incluyen algunos textos dentro de la prosa, que son traducciones o traslaciones de otras lenguas con elaboración propia: Crónica Xeral Galega, General Estoria, Crónica Galega de 1404 e Crónica de Santa María de Iria.”
http://www.galego.org/espannol/visita/medieval.html


“De la segunda mitad del siglo XIII son la mayor parte de los poetas galaico-portugueses: Martín Codax, cuyas composiciones paralelísticas recuerdan a Vigo y al mar; Ayras Nunez, cortesano de Sancho IV; Nuno Fernandes, famoso por una cantiga de amigo emparentada con el alba provenzal. De Xohan Zorro conservamos once cantigas, barcarolas algunas de ellas, elaboradas con la técnica de leixa-pren.”
“La lírica castellana vive en un estado latente, al menos, hasta mediados del siglo XIV.”
http://www.spanisharts.com/books/literature/lirica.htm

I dont know why all this hatred towards Portuguese people, c'mon, it was supposed to be a forum about French and spanish.
By the way, Mike and Craig, i'm portuguese and i talk both portuguese and spanish without a problem, so i dont have any quarrel against my spanish cousins, in fact, we are known to hate spanish which is something wrong and out-of-date. If both of u don't like Portuguese language, simply :
se não querem comer, melhor ficar calado. Melhor calado do que a dizer merda.

I agree with Gitano. No one is forcing anyone to learn Portuguese. Like Gitano, I don't know why all the negative sentiment toward the Portuguese language. What people have not acknowledged here, is that there are many Spanish speakers from Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and other South American countries that are learning Portuguese as a second language in school. People conveniently forget that Portuguese is greatly influencing the spoken Spanish in the above mentioned countries. A lot of people talk about how Portuguese will eventually to succomb to Spanish. Maybe it will be the other way around. Don't forget, Brazil comprises just about half of all South America. And in terms of geographic extension, Spanish is pretty much limited to Central and South America (Carribean too), whereas Portuguese is spoken all across the globe. We may not be alive to witness it, but sooner or later, some African countries will explode economically. Angola comes to mind, a country abundantly rich in natural resources. Portuguese has already become the 'national' language of about 70% of Angolans. Since the revolution there in the 70s, Angola's situation has steadily gotten better, albeit slowly. Even if the progress is slow, let's remember that 'a thousand mile journey begins with a single step'. Many of you may not know this, but the Angolan capital city of Luanda is very much like Rio de Janeiro in terms of climate and natural beauty. Tourism is going to be very important for the Angolan economy, much in the same way that tourism is vital for Cuba.

The Castilians tried very, very hard to absord Portugal. They did for 60 years, but ultimately they failed. The Portuguese are a fiercely proud and resilient people. Portugal is a small country, yes, but it's language and culture have endured for over 600 years. Spain is so much larger than Portugal, and yet during the colonial period, Portugal managed to accomplish just as much as Spain, and I would argue, more. Portugal does not need to ride on the coat tails of any other country. Portugal basques in its own glory. We are a humble, friendly, mild mannered people. But make no mistake, we are also very proud. We are not quitters. We are not going to turn our backs on our own, beautiful language. We never have, and we never will. The growing numbers of Portuguese speakers all over the world proves that the Portguese language is here to stay - at least for a very long time. Jorge.

Mike Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:54 am GMT

<<Portuguese-speakers are writing false propaganda about their language in the hope that some naive souls will fall into the trap and fooled into learning Portuguese.>>

Where is the false propaganda? Portuguese people doe not need to trap anyone for Portuguese language be learned. It is already spoken by million of people all over the world. Contrary to other people the Portuguese do not need to talk bad about other languages to mention the "higher potentiality of growth" of the Portuguese language. The numbers speak for it self.


<<As others have mentioned, Portuguese is a very nasal language and nasality starts to grate on me after a couple of minutes.>>

<<My rankings in terms of euphony:
1. French and Spanish tied together in first place. I cannot separate them.>>

I suppose French is not a nasal language? How long till nasality starts to grate on you? How many minutes till you notice French is a nasal language?

>>>Melhor calado do que a dizer merda.<<<

LOL!!!

I agree with that. Many posts here seem to want to encourage a fight between Portuguese and Spaniards.

In the past there may have been problems, but nowadays the arguments posted above have no relevance.

Only ignorants would have an interest in continuing this "conflict".

I apologize to the Portuguese-speakers if I've hit a raw nerve. But sadly this isn't the first time that I've come across Portuguese-speakers that over estimate the importance of their language perhaps in order to feel good about themselves. The reality is, that whether they want to admit or not Portuguese, has little relevance outside the countries where it is an official language. Brazil might have lots of land and resources but its much more smaller neighbors are rapidly becoming 1st world. In countries like Chile, Argentina and Uruguay corruption is slowly but surely being eliminated and soon will be comparable to European countries in living standards whereas Brazil, as big as it is, seems to be permanently stuck in the 3rd world. Africa has being for poor for thousands and thousands of years so I don't hold much hope for them that is all I can say.


<<I suppose French is not a nasal language? How long till nasality starts to grate on you? How many minutes till you notice French is a nasal language? >>


The nasality in French is different. It doesn't have that piercing quality that Portuguese does and it also has touch of class and elegance about it something that Portuguese lacks. In many ways Portuguese sounds more like a tropical African language than a sophisticated European one. That's why I regard French along with Spanish as the best Romance languages.

like i said before, no one is forcing u to like Portuguese, u dont like it ok then. Cuz from what u post it seems that u hate not just portuguese people but everything about portuguese culture. I dont give a damn if u like it or not, like i said we are sofisticated people even though we are the poorest countrie from Europe. And by the way, i invite u to come to Portugal to feel the portuguese reception, ok?
Ciao

Yes, this conflict seems to be fought mainly by outsiders against the Portuguese. I'm glad that they recognize the importance and beauty of Spanish but that doesnt mean you have to put down other languages. I myself am a Spanish speaker, and i have no problem with Portuguese. If Brazil is to succumb to Spanish in the future, I doubt it will be eliminated completely, it will most likely stay as the language of the elite.

One more thing...
<<Africa has being for poor for thousands and thousands of years so I don't hold much hope for them that is all I can say.>>

When were those thousands and thousands of years? Were they during the reign of Egypt? Carthage? Imperial Rome? The Muslim Caliphates?