Why is Dutch so different from all other Germanic languages?

Guest   Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:33 am GMT
>> Dutch, Flemish, Niedersachsen, Afrikaans, ... <<

Flemish is just another word for Dutch. Afrikaans is a Dutch creole. Niedersachen is the German name for a province in Germany.
Travis   Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:22 pm GMT
Well, as for Flemish, it means what you are referring to by such. There is East Flemish, which is unambiguously a Dutch dialect, but there is also West Flemish, which is far enough from Standard Dutch (probably about as far as Scots is from Standard English) to be called a distinct language. As for Afrikaans, it is not a creole per se, properly speaking, and while it is close enough to Standard Dutch to potentially be called a set of dialects of Dutch, for political reasons it is normally considered to be a separate language from it. And as for "Niedersachsen", what is being referred to is Low Saxon, which is spoken in the northeast of the Netherlands outside the area where West Frisian is spoken.
Guest   Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:22 pm GMT
<<Niedersachen is the German name for a province in Germany. >>

by this I'm referring to the Dutch Low Saxon 'Nedersaksisch'

in any event, Dutch is not in isolation
Dutchie   Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:25 pm GMT
>>There is East Flemish, which is unambiguously a Dutch dialect, but there is also West Flemish, which is far enough from Standard Dutch (probably about as far as Scots is from Standard English) to be called a distinct language.<<

Have you ever heard West Flemish Travis? If east Flemish is still a dialect, then West flemish certainly is!
Travis   Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:42 pm GMT
At least from everything I've read up on about it (and at least seeing it in writing), West Flemish is about equivalent in distance relative to Dutch to the status of Scots relative to English; hence I tend to prefer to regard it as a separate language from Dutch in all fairness as I regard Scots as a separate language from English in the first place.
guest   Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:06 pm GMT
I consider West Flemish a separate language too for the following reasons:

1). It has its own set of dialects

{West Flemish (West Flemish: Vlaemsch, Dutch: West-Vlaams, French: Flamand occidental) is a group of dialects spoken in parts of the Netherlands, Belgium and France.} --Wikipedia

2). unintelligible to Dutch with different vocab and grammar

{West Flemish is very different from standard Dutch in pronunciation as well as vocabulary and grammar, to the extent that it's quite unintelligible to Dutch speakers unaccustomed to the dialect. A simple phrase like "Ik ben gisteren nog bij hen geweest" (I was at their place only yesterday) will be pronounced as " 'k zyn histern no(c)h toet ulders (h)ewist".

A classic example is its unique conjugation of yes (ja) and no (nee):

jaok (ja ik = "Yes, I do", "Yes, I have", "Yes, I am", etc. in English)
jaog (ja gij = Yes, you do"... - singular)
jaoj / jaos / jaot (ja hij/zij/het = "Yes, he/she/it does"...)
jaow (ja wij = "Yes, we do"...)
jaog (ja gij = "Yes, you do"... - plural)
jaos (ja zij = "Yes, they do"...) } --Wikipedia

Those 2 reasons sound like different language to me
Guest   Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:42 pm GMT
-English has a large number of irregular verbs as well.-

Yup, sneak, snuck, snuck
dive, dove, dived
Guest   Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:36 am GMT
but you've never heard it? I know very few linguist who would draw their conclusions on writing alone ... but where did you read about this? I never knew there was english literature on west and east flemish ...

oh btw, guest 2, I'm not a linguist, but I think all dialect have variants of their own and your 'conjugation of yes' doesn't seem to be a conjugation but merely a merging of yes and the first sound of the personal pronoun. Many Dutch dialects do that ...
greg   Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:39 pm GMT
Travis : « Well, as for Flemish, it means what you are referring to by such. There is East Flemish, which is unambiguously a Dutch dialect, but there is also West Flemish, which is far enough from Standard Dutch (probably about as far as Scots is from Standard English) to be called a distinct language. »

Tja, dieses Thema erinnert mich an zahlreiche Gespräche, die hier an Antimoon und anderen Foren mit einem bestimmten Niederländischsprächigen geführt worden sind...
Travis   Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:08 pm GMT
Die Niederlande haben viele Einwohner greg, daraußer würde ich es nicht slim finden, wenn es ihm war. Für mich gilt er noch immer als besser wenn man ihm mit den scheinbar unendlichen Zahlen von Ihren französische Landsleute auf diesem Forum vergleicht ... Keine Beleidigung damit gemeint.
Travis   Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:05 pm GMT
LOL - The last comment really is not by me at all...

LOL - Der letzte Kommentar ist wirklich nicht von mir...
Travis   Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:19 pm GMT
Auch benützt du das niederländische Wort "slim" statt des deutschen Worts "schwer". Man muss auch sich erinnernt worden, dass das deutsche Wort "schlimm" eine verschiedene Bedeutung vom niederländischen Wort "slim" hat.
Guest   Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:08 am GMT
slim in German means bad. Ich wuerde das nicht slim finden means I wouldn't mind.
Otto   Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:10 am GMT
Es heißt schlimm und nicht slim: Ich wuerde das nicht schlimm finden