American English in the UK?

Giovanni   Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:10 am GMT
How is American English perceived in the UK? Do British people see it as being at the same level of correct as Indian or Dutch English? How much trouble is it for US-Americans to learn proper English like it it teached on the Eurasian continent?

In other words which non-native English speaking foreigners who living in the UK, speaking, reading and writing better English? Americans or some other group?
Guest   Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:47 am GMT
Va farti fottere.
Uriel   Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:04 am GMT
You're kidding me, right, Giovanni?
Estel   Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:21 am GMT
You're joking, Giovanni! American English being on the same level with Indian English and Dutch English? And proper English as taught on the Eurasian continent? And since when are Americans non-native English speaking foreigners?

Someone enlighten me, please! I have no idea it was like that until Giovanni posted this thread.
Damian in Edinburgh   Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:39 am GMT
Don't be so hard on Giovanni! At first glance the way he posed this question may seem a wee bit strange but whwen you think on a little you can actually see that he has a point.

America is not an all white, all Anglo-Saxon country, all speaking Anglo-Saxon Englsh albeit with an American accent by any stretch of the imagination, much as a good many of them would like to think it is, and going by recent reports in the media (over here in the UK anyway) the numbers of white Anglo Saxon Americans is set to become a minority group by the middle of this century.

Already there is a huge Latino population over there, increasing in numbers year on year, plus the fact that there is also a substantial number of Afro-Americans, many of whom speak Ebonics style English which to most of us in the UK is very difficult to understand but not to the aforementioned white Anglo-Saxon Americans it seems, so they are obviously used to hearing this form of English. Some of the American chat shows on TV feature Afro-Americans the speech of whom the white American presenters can follow but which British viewers can't for the most part, and subtitles would be a good idea but are never provided it seems, although you can do the old 888 thing.

However, it is the white Anglo Saxon Americans who are the most likely of any American racial group to visit the UK so there isn't a problem at all over here with their American English. Most of the Americans we see (and hear of course) are extremely articulate so they have no problems being understood over here at all. In fact, many of them speak better English than a fair number of Brits, and I've mentioned before in this Forum that going by what we see on TV many young American students, for example, very often appear to be more articulate and are able to express themselves more clearly and effectively, than their British counterparts.

As for Dutch English - well, let me tell you that I have spoken with Dutch people who speak absolutely perfect English - by and large they all speak excellent English as learning the Language in the Netherlands is compulsory in schools. Many Dutch people have been to the UK - not surprising seeing that it is so close to the UK (Heathrow to Schipol Amsterdam in about 50/55 minutes - given a time difference of one hour you can be back in London ten minutes before you set off from Amsterdam, as it is with Paris and Brussels).

Some Dutch people have never been over to the UK and yet they speak top rate English, albeit with a characteristic Dutch accent. But some don't even have that when speaking English, as I discovered in a large store in Amsterdam when I asked a lady assistant behind a counter for directions. She responded in perfect English with a kind of Southern English English RP accent, and when I asked her which part of England she came from (I automatically assumed she was English) she told me she was as Dutch as windmills, dykes and Edam and Gouda cheese and had never been to England in her life! She looked the honest type, friendly and open like the Dutch people generally, so I had no option but to believe her.
Johnny   Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:56 am GMT
<<How much trouble is it for US-Americans to learn proper English like it it teached on the Eurasian continent? >>

And how much trouble is it for people in Europe to learn proper English like it is taught in California?
See? Everything is relative. You can't say what is "absolutely proper".

Oh, wait, I missed your "US-American". Now I know you are kidding. :D
Travis   Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:15 pm GMT
>>America is not an all white, all Anglo-Saxon country, all speaking Anglo-Saxon Englsh albeit with an American accent by any stretch of the imagination, much as a good many of them would like to think it is, and going by recent reports in the media (over here in the UK anyway) the numbers of white Anglo Saxon Americans is set to become a minority group by the middle of this century.<<

Ahem... just to be a pedant, just because one in the US is white does not mean that one is Anglo-Saxon per se... In much of the US, and especially in the Midwest, actual Anglo-Saxon descent is very much in the minority (and does not even have a plurality for claimed ethnicities), with most white people being of other European backgrounds such as German, Irish, Scandinavian, Polish, and like. The Midwest in particular is really only "Anglo-Saxon" at all in the sense that English is natively spoken there today.
Guest   Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:49 am GMT
There are also a lot of black people who act white (eg Obama) and a lot of white people who act black (eg Eminem). Those are extreme examples, but it's very widespread.
Guest   Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:13 am GMT
"plus the fact that there is also a substantial number of Afro-Americans"

Afro-American? What is this, 1974?
Guest   Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:18 am GMT
An Afro-American is a euphemism for "Black People" who happen to be US citizens.
People who use this term are inadvertently admitting that there is something "bad' about being black, which is why it's still ok to say "white people" but not "black people"
Guest   Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:29 am GMT
An 'Afro-American' is any American with an 'afro' hairstyle.
Guest   Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:02 am GMT
This guy is obviously a troll; he used several hot button past topics in the same post. There's no point in posting seriously in this thread.
Johnny   Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:17 am GMT
<<This guy is obviously a troll; he used several hot button past topics in the same post.>>
Hey, I hadn't noticed that. It's true!
1) Indian English
2) Correct and proper English
3) US-Americans (Stations)
4) Several implications that American English is bad and Americans are not good at learning.

Is Giovanni only an Italian name? Or also Spanish?
Damian in Edinburgh   Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:59 pm GMT
***In much of the US, and especially in the Midwest, actual Anglo-Saxon descent is very much in the minority (and does not even have a plurality for claimed ethnicities), with most white people being of other European backgrounds such as German, Irish, Scandinavian, Polish, and like***

Please, please, please understand that the term "Anglo Saxon" does not automatically mean the the people of England as such. They were not the original inhabitants of these islands since time immemorial. I'm sure you're aware of that!

Before the Romans occupied the island they called Britannia - from 54BC to 410AD - the Celtic tribes held sway here, and for many centuries prior to the moment Julius Caesar first set foot on the hallowed shores of Pegwell Bay, in what is now Kent, Iron Age tribes inhabited sites all over the undeveloped countryside of Britain of that time in history, and these people have left a multitude of relics in the form of hilltop forts, circular villages, long barrows, cromlechs and many other foms of evidence of their existence clearly visible today to all who wish to see them and who are interested in the so called Ancient Britons.

Some of these ancient hilltop fortresses of pre-history are still extrenely impreesive even to this day and still dominate the countryside of the present day - Danebury Hill, on the border between Hampshire and Wiltshire, is one such magnificent sight to see, both from the meadows below and from the very top, in the middle of the circular ramparts. Just below Danebury Hill is the site of former RAF Station called RAF Middle Wallop, would you believe - that being the name if a nearby village! RAF Middle Wallop was a fighter station during WW2, and the views from the hilltop fortress during the Battle of Britain in 1940 would have been truly awesome watching the German Luftwaffe planes zooming in low from the south east and letting loose their HE bombs on the RAF base below. The village of Middle Wallop is now a peaceful haven for commuters living in its beautiful surroundings but probably working in towns close by or even further afield.

Back to the Anglo Saxons - the Angles and the Saxons, and also the Jutes and the Danes, invaded Britain from the Continent, from what is now Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, for the most part. THEY were the original Anglo Saxons, not the original people of what is now England. In time, however, they DID become the English, and were later joined by the Vikings, who swept in from the Northern parts of what is now Europe - Scandinavia in fact.

They all melded together in a nice, merry way and the foundations of modern day England were set, and in time the wonderful English Language began to take shape. The Angles gave England its name - and those parts of South Eastern England, between what is now the River Thames and The Wash (an inlet from the North Sea, between Norfolk and Lincolnshire, where King John unfortunately lost all his jewels in a sudden inrush of the tide in the 13th century) is called East Anglia to this very day.

East Anglia is an area of England with a very distinct and identifiable character, as well as a landscape all its own (think of John Constable, 1776-1837, the famous landscape painter) and furthermore - an accent all of its own - East Anglians themselves can distinguish the accents of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex, the three counties of which East Anglia comprises, and they say they are all quite different from each other. However, Estuary is now becoming quite dominant in many areas, most definitely in South Essex, which borders onto the eastern fringes of Greater London.

East Anglia was the stomping ground of Queen Boadicea (or Boudicca if you prefer) - a very formidable woman, very fierce and warlike, who led the Celtic Iceni tribe against the Romans as they swept into the heartlands of her East Anglian territory. She snuffed it in 62AD.

So the term Anglo Saxon does not refer to the English exclusively. So all those modern day white inhabitants of the United States of America can indeed be called Anglos Saxon, even if their ancestors came from Northern European countries other than England (or the UK generally).

This is what they teach white Anglo Saxon British kids about THEIR forebears of many centuries past:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/anglosaxons/invasion/index.shtml

Anglo Saxons as such will most certainly make up the majority of the UK population by a long way, and so it will continue in spite of immigration from outside of Europe, which the UK Government, under pressure from the Brtish public, is "determined" to control as a matter of urgency.

Conversely, an Anglo Saxon majority (or more exactly a white European majority) in the United States looks set to become an actual minority in the course of time, as I mentioned before.

Although it's none of our business (although in global terms it IS our biusiness in a way so long as the USA retains it's primary status in the Western world, the majority of Europeans, by a very wide margin, would be happy to see a black man take up the American Presidency.

If Great Britain (or Europe generally) was an American State it would probably be the bluest of all the blue American States that's for sure.
Guest   Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:08 am GMT
Trust me, white people aren't going to be in the minority in the US anytime soon. Just about every US state has a white population of about 96-99%. Only about 3 or 4 states are actually racially diverse.