tenses in indo-euro langs

Propaganda Bottle   Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:43 pm GMT
Why is there exact correspondence between the tenses in English and Spanish? Is it the same in other languages?

I eat = como
I ate = comí
I will eat = comeré
I had eaten = había comido
I will have eaten = habré comido
I will have been eating = habré estado comiendo
I have eaten = he comido
I would eat = comería
I would have eaten = habría comido
I would have been eating = habría estado comiendo
I had been eating = había estado comiendo
etc

Why is it identical? How is it in other languages?

Other indo-Euro languages show no such direct correspondence (eg Russian)
Blanquita   Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:36 pm GMT
Identical?

? = coma
? = haya comido
? = comiera o comise
? = hubiera comido o hubiese comido
? = comiere
? = hubiere comido

English is far from being identical to Spanish as for verbal tenses, it lacks all the Subjunctive ones.
Propaganda Bottle   Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:46 pm GMT
Ok then why is the auxillary verb <have> used in exactly the same way as <haber>? Is it just a coincidence? Is there a similar auxillary verb in other Romance languages? What about Germanic?
K. T.   Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:50 pm GMT
Yes, there are similar verbs in other languages and not just romance languages. IE languages are easy and fun because they share some similarities.
User   Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:13 pm GMT
<<English is far from being identical to Spanish as for verbal tenses, it lacks all the Subjunctive ones.>>

Subjunctive conjugations are not considered a tense, but rather a mood.
Guest   Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:28 pm GMT
They are tenses as well. Conditional can be considered a mood too.
PARISIEN   Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:06 pm GMT
"English is far from being identical to Spanish as for verbal tenses, it lacks all the Subjunctive ones."

Many Germanic languages have dropped subjunctive but German still has it.

The most fascinating feature is the fact that all Western European languages use auxiliaries for the future tense. Even the Romance ones, though it is merged with the verb:

- Esp [ yo ] comeré = "comer-he"
- Ital [ io ] mangierò = "mangiar-ho"
- Fr "je mangerai" = "je manger-ai"
K. T.   Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:33 pm GMT
That's interesting. I learned something today.
fox   Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:59 pm GMT
it's mangerò in Italian not mangierò :-) Regarding the topic of the post, for instance French and Italian have two auxiliary verbs to form all compound tenses : avoir etre/essere avere, Spanish and English just one to have /haber and this aspect simplifies a lot the grammar in my view
Paul   Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:56 am GMT
I think its just the romance languages that have this construction ( have + past participle) in common with english.

...which is supposedly because of germanic influence on the romance languages.
Paul   Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:10 am GMT
<<English is far from being identical to Spanish as for verbal tenses, it lacks all the Subjunctive ones.>>

English is not without a subjunctive.


If I had eaten = Si yo hubiera comido
PARISIEN   Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:04 am GMT
<< French and Italian have two auxiliary verbs to form all compound tenses : avoir etre/essere avere >>

German and Dutch also have two auxiliary verbs for past tenses, and use them with just the same verbs as in French or Italien (typically for 'to go', 'to come', 'to become' and all their intransitive compounds).

An absolutely awesome instance of language convergence!


<< English is not without a subjunctive.
If I had eaten = Si yo hubiera comido >>

-- It's a subjunctive in Spanish (*), not in English (not in French either).

(*) in Italian too: "se io avessi mangiato"
roka   Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:09 am GMT
The use of the auxiliary verb essere is much wider in Italian than French, German and Dutch for instance
il tempo è cambiato = le temps a changé
egli è scomparso = il a disparu
è piovuto/ha piovuto = il a plu
è dovuto andarsene = il a du s'en aller
è potuto partire = il a pu partir
and so on
Alessandro   Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:15 am GMT
- Ital [ io ] mangerò = "mangiar-ho"
lica   Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:15 pm GMT
? = comiere
? = hubiere comido

Nobody makes use of these tenses in modern Spanish, they only survive in codified sentences of the juridical language.