Is "screwed up" an inappropriate term for a presid

Poliglob, I do see that point of view, but the travesty of the war—based on lies and innuendo—is too big to ignore. Before you bring up the bipartisan support for that war, please remember that the Senate and House were fed lies by a CIA position directly—and irregularly—influenced by Cheney himself, who proceeded to award all the cleanup work to his company Halliburton.

(The bipartisan 9-11 commission has definitively determined that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, so the attack on US soil on that date is irrelevant in discussions about the war.)

Despite some initial misgivings about Obama, I believed, as did most Americans, that we were ready for a change in direction.

The more appropriate version is "messed up." But kids these days can't get their heads out of the gutter and have to have sexual references in everything, so we have "screwed up" which comes from the slang version of "screw," the same way we have "f'd up" from the f. Both words have sexual connotations, and they use it to mean "messed up." Why? I don't know, people are weird like that. There are more specific words that can be used to actually convey a more honst, direct, and clear meaning. But it's much easier for people to just use a phrase for everything, instead having to think an extra split second for the right word. They like what's easy, not what is clear and good communication for the other person.

I don' think any politician should use phrases like that. They are in high positions, elected officials, they should use the vocabulary we expect them to use. I would say it depends when it's appropiate. Casually may be fine, but if in a speech, formal interview, etc., I don't like hearing slang like that. They especially shouldn't use the more vulgar ones if there's a cleaner version, regardless of the fact that the younger generation / masses think it's ok just because they use it all the time. It all comes down to one of the big issues with swear words or inappropiate expressions - respect for others. If they want to use "Screw up," they should wait some more time for it to keep sliding that way until it becomes as non-vulgar as "jerk." We're still not there yet.

Using phrases and words like that is more of a PR thing, to drop down a bit to the level of the younger generation. I don't think that's how thing should be, but I also understand they may be forced to act that way. It's just the sorry state of how people can be. They can't connect with people unless they talk like them, use their expressions, or come down to their level. Wow..such a big deal to them. Poor kids who can't go past their low level vocab and focus instead on what's being said.

Jasper, it appears that we're too far apart in our assumptions to discuss this in any depth in the short posts appropriate to this forum. I'll add, though, that Al Qaeda itself seemed to think that the war in Iraq was very relevant to their aims. They publicly announced several years ago that winning a victory in Iraq was their highest priority. That's why the setbacks that they've received in that war are so gratifying. They serve to decrease Al Qaeda's prestige in the Muslim world. Many of their erstwhile allies have now turned against them.

Let's not go off-topic people. This is not a politics forum.

↑ Quite so; I was getting ready to suggest that myself.

RHOI: if you don't mind my asking, what's your country of origin? It's germane to the discussion.

If you'll pardon my speaking out of turn once again, I think there is an essential difference of opinion in place in this debate. Europeans apparently perceive the phrase "screwed up" as a vulgarism; the Americans do not.

If I might go off on a tangent, the phrase "messed up" might also be seen as a vulgarism, because the word "mess" is a euphemism for the word (pardon me) "shit"; hence you will sometimes hear older Americans say,"My cat messed behind the sofa".

Apropos the phrase "screwed up", it has become so commonplace in America that you might even hear grannies use the term; the truly vulgar would come right out and say "fucked up". (Pardon my language, once again.)

I can see that because there are two different perceptions of this phrase, this debate will probably never end. A gentleman's agreement to disagree is probably in order.

<<If you'll pardon my speaking out of turn once again, I think there is an essential difference of opinion in place in this debate. Europeans apparently perceive the phrase "screwed up" as a vulgarism; the Americans do not.
>>

I don't think Europeans think it is vulgar, but rather they have 'higher' (different) standards for their presidents.

I think it is "slightly" vulgar, well, if not vulgar, maybe too colloquial. I don't find "messed" to be offensive, but I'm a little tired of hearing "I inherited this mess." recently.

For the record: I am not a granny. Barack Obama is older than I am, but he had a unique upbringing and he may be used to people who use much spicier language-his chief of staff, for example. People who have conservative or even Southern parents/grandparents may watch their tongues a little more in public. Men do not curse in front of ladies and ladies do not curse-that kind of thinking.

Naughty Jasper!

↑ I understand this mode of thinking better than you might think, because my own parents are aging Southern middle-classed people. :-)

I hope my comments did not offend, but I had to be specific with words in order to make the point.

Be that as it may, McCain recently used the term "screwed up" on the David Letterman Show, in front of millions of viewers. No one—even the conservatives who voted for him— has called him on it.

I believe that for the most part, the use of "screwed up" in America is not seen as a big deal.

Jasper,

I know that about you. "Messed" is common among some Southern people, for example. Some words are dead giveaways, even if I didn't already know that from reading your interesting posts.

I also know that both McCain and Bush are no Sunday School speakers, lol.

I teased you a bit, but the bottom line is not everyone thinks it's okay, and even people younger than Mr. Obama don't use it in public. I do think this is changing, however.

I don't even think of the sexual meaning when I hear 'screwed up', and I wasn't bothered when Obama used it. It's informal, yes, but I don't mind occasional informality.

On the other hand, if 'screwed' were to be used with a human direct object (or as the subject of 'was screwed by'), the sexual meaning would cross my mind even if the use were metaphorical. That I'd definitely consider inappropriate.

Yes, I think changing the preposition brings too much to mind too quickly! Agree with Poliglob.

LanguageLover: One thing that crosses my mind is that compared to Biden, Obama is a Sunday School teacher. Have you ever heard Biden speak? He would make the Church Lady turn crimson with embarrassment. Having stuck his foot in his mouth at least a couple of times, he really does need lessons in appropriate use of the English language.

Yeah, moderators, I know it's going off the topic.

That's what I mean-although Mr. Obama doesn't have Sunday School views (on abortion, for example), he sounds more gentil than Bush or McCain-so when he switches register, it's noticeable.

Biden is a lot of fun. Oh, wait, what did he say today?