without accent

Danilo   Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:34 am GMT
Hello, anybody know a foreign that learned english without accent after teenage(preferably with twenty-one year's old or more)?
Jasper   Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:18 am GMT
danilo: Completely without an accent, after the age of 21? No, not a single one.

I have met a few gifted individuals who were very nearly without an accent, who learned English at 18 or 19, but that is quite a different matter.
Paul   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:38 am GMT
Jasper , why is it a different matter ? two years makes such difference ?
European   Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:41 pm GMT
I have never heard a native English speaker, speaking my language, without an accent.
Danilo   Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:01 pm GMT
Is possible to someone change to CN/US/UK, live and learn english, even after residing ten,twenty years achieve a perfect english?
I know a lot of people that speak portuguese almost perfect. The major problem in portuguese are: pronunciation of: "ão", "õe", "lh", "nh".
Generally this people make this mistakes.
Danilo   Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:10 pm GMT
I think, if this people learn how to speak correctly this songs and train enough they will speak in a lot of moments equal a brazilian native.
12345   Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:12 pm GMT
I think 'not an accent' doesn't even exist. Everyone has traces of several accents.
Johnny   Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:04 pm GMT
Nothing is impossible if you try hard enough. Some things might seem impractical or unreasonable, but that doesn't mean "impossible". It takes a lot of professional study and practice, and only those who really want to do it can succeed. In other words, you need to become a professional if you want to do extreme things. You might have to study and practice several hours a day for some years. Impractical for most people, but not impossible.
Kess   Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:25 pm GMT
''I know a lot of people that speak portuguese almost perfect.''
Mas o sotaque deles tá na cara.
But their accent is quite obvious.

Differences may be subtle, in a near-perfect speaker, but great enough to tell you ''you're not from here, you sound a bit strange''...It could be a wrong intonation patterns, or errors in liaison, different rhythm, slow speech, too formal style... It's much easy to write ''native-like'' than to speak ''native-like''. I can fool everybody, writing in Spanish, speech is another thing.
Kess   Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:28 pm GMT
''Impractical for most people, but not impossible. ''

Yup, you have to have a professional accent coach. This reminds me of a documentary ''Talking Canadian'' in which Canadian actors are taught how to speak like just like Americans (intonation and pronunciation are different).
Danilo   Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:25 pm GMT
Ok, Some time I heard a french speaking portuguese without accent, and I know a spanish that speak almost without accent, it's not easy to perceive that he is foreign.
They do not have a accent coach and they don't know and never used a software for accent reduction.
I had a boss from Israel, he spoke portuguese almost perfect, but still with accent, he had a accent coach (but he talks with the family in hebrew)
(Exists a lot of professional softwares and sites for this propose, I think that this softwares are very better than a person accent coach).
Jasper   Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:18 am GMT
PAUL:

It is believed that the neurons involving native language acquirement are fully grown by the age of 21, making true native speech after that age impossible. (Think of this in terms of your physical body, and it will make sense; does anybody grow any TALLER after then?)

There is a body of opinion that asserts that there are a few gifted individuals who can overcome this handicap, but if there are, I've never met them.

It is interesting to note that after several years of grueling speech instruction, Arnold Schwarzenegger still speaks with a noticable accent. However, his speech is infinitely superior to what it once was—at one time, his accent was so thick he was not understandable.
Californian   Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:21 am GMT
>> Yup, you have to have a professional accent coach. This reminds me of a documentary ''Talking Canadian'' in which Canadian actors are taught how to speak like just like Americans (intonation and pronunciation are different). <<

Which American accent are they aiming for? A Western accent? And in what ways are the intonation patterns different from other North American accents? I know lots of Canadians living here in California, and I don't notice anything different about their intonation. As for pronunciation, all they really have to do is eliminate pre-fortis clipping, and change some pre-rhotic vowels, and that would be sufficient to blend in with a California accent, as the rest of the differences would rarely be noticed.
Johnny   Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:15 am GMT
<<It is believed that the neurons involving native language acquirement are fully grown by the age of 21, making true native speech after that age impossible.>>

I really don't believe it's so. By the time you are a teenager, you've lost the ability to pick up any feature of a language "naturally", which means like children do, automatically and unconsciously. You don't lose the ability to learn though, you don't lose the ability to move your mouth in certain ways, you don't lose the ability to change your habits. Some people find it easier than others, for example voice actors, singers, etc., but everyone has the ability to change their voice.

<<It is interesting to note that after several years of grueling speech instruction, Arnold Schwarzenegger still speaks with a noticable accent.>>

But you don't know what advice his accent coach gives him, you don't know how much he practices, and you don't know how much Arnold actually cares. Definitely less than voice professionals, of course.

What I am saying is that although it's very hard, you can say it's impractical or not sensible, but not "impossible". I believe if there was a contest "Lose your foreign accent and win ten billion dollars", there would be a lot of non-native speakers with no foreign accent. Of course hardly any adults have a lot of time and money to put into improving their English seriously and professionally, and it's often not worth it, so it's not surprising they all still have an accent.
muppet   Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:27 am GMT
I've known several people who reached the level where an ordinary native speaker would not notice their accent and take them naturally for a native speaker. This doesn't mean they don't have an accent, I'm quite certain a professional linguist would detect that they're not native, but an ordinary unsuspecting person is hardly going to be able to tell.