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Are Irish English and Scottish English rhotic?
I'm pretty positive Irish English is rhotic and its "R" sound is nearly identical to North American "R". (Correct me if I'm wrong!)
1. Is Scottish English rhotic as well? 2. Is Scottish "R" sound similar to North American R (or Irish R)? 3. Are there any Irish dialects that are non-rhotic?
yes many forms of those are rhotic. Some Irish dialects sound very much like NAE. Some dialects are non-rhotic.
The Celtic nations all have rhotic accents.
I think the strongest out of the lot is Cornish and it's nearby English neighbour Devon also has a slightly less rhotic accent.
Q: Is Scottish English rhotic as well?
A: No Q: Is Scottish "R" sound similar to North American R (or Irish R)? A: No - we rrrrroll ourrrr Rrrrrs Q: Are there any Irish dialects that are non-rhotic? A: I've only been to Ireland (the Republic) once - to Dublin and then only for a fleeting visit staying longer than we anticipated because we missed the day's last ferry back from Dun Laoghaire to Holyhead, Wales, so I don't really know if there are any non-rhotic Irish dialects. I doubt it but you never know - you may find one lurking about in County Sligo or in deepest, darkest Kerry or Clare - or perhaps in the hills of Mayo somewhere. Why not take a trip to the Emerald Isle and find out for yourself?
“Q: Is Scottish "R" sound similar to North American R (or Irish R)?
A: No - we rrrrroll ourrrr Rrrrrs” Maybe in Edinburgh, but not all Scottish people do it.
<The Celtic nations all have rhotic accents. >
Wales hasn't, for the most part.
How can Scottish not be rhotic? If you roll all your R's, you're HYPER-rhotic, not non-rhotic!
bored (why?: - can you nae get up onto your feet and do something about that, pal?? Boredom is such a wasteful exercise and you should be thinking on the lines of your day not containing sufficient hours in which to do all the things you need to do.....anyway, back to your point - you said in response to the rolled "Rs" thing in Scotland:
***Maybe in Edinburgh, but not all Scottish people do it*** Maybe so but that would be an exception to the general characteristic of the average Scottish accent.....as in the Edinburgh district of Morningside for instance (see my note below) and even there it is pretty well confined to a certain class of people living there...and perhaps up in the Outer Hebrides* or the Isle of Skye and all the other islands. *Hebrides - "HEB-rid-ease" to those not familar with the name...preferably with the "R" well rolled. The general Edinburgh accent: This English guy who says he has moved here to Edinburgh needs to practise a whole lot more before he can ever be mistaken for a native born resident of our city! Fair play to him for trying though - but he needs to tidy up his flat at the same time (or apartment as he calls it)...it's a wee bit of a slackstate....a tip in Scots....a mess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW6QXJNeqW8&feature=related Now here's the real thing - an authentic native born Edinburgh accent very similar to my own - quite brief, no picture, but quite clearly the bloke rolls his Rs - listen to him saying "King James the Furrst (ie First) of England". Notice too how we say "England". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2PvMSBxeCo Of course Scottish accents can vary and the Rs rolling thing is more pronounced in some than in others. For example there it is not nearly as evident in the much maligned, somewhat affected "posh" (by Scottish standards) Morningside version of Edinburgh talk...Morningside being a rather "posh" district of the city. Anyway....what about this very talented lady from the United States speaking in 21 different English Language accents from all around the globe - starting off in London, England (quite good!) and ending up back home in America.....I'm not sure if she finished with her version of Brooklyn, NYC?.....perhaps our American friends can enlighten us on that point. Her British and Irish accents were very good in my opinion but her Scottish accent seemed quite passable but no way coud I pinpoint it to any particular part of Scotland. Perhaps she found Geordie (Newcastle and Tyneside) Scouse (Liverpool) and Brummie (Birmingham) too much of a challenge? Never mind - she's really good with the others. At the beginniung I really thought she was English and not American so she had me fooled. I think she was great all round and obviously makes a study of all our various accents. I liked her Prague (Praha) accent especially....now that really is one cool city....if you can overlook drunken off their heads Brits on stag/hen night weekends.....;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UgpfSp2t6k
***How can Scottish not be rhotic? If you roll all your R's, you're HYPER-rhotic, not non-rhotic!***
In a sense you are quite right - the distinctive Scottish rolling of the "R" is rhotic but definitely not in the same way as it is in the American accents, or indeed the accents of some parts of England such as the West Country and maybe East Anglia which later contributed to the general American accent existing today. I was making a distinction between those and the characteristic Scottish accent which is clearly different from all of them in that respect. However - let's compromise by agreeing that the Scottish accent IS rhotic, it is the norm up here, but in a totally different way. For instance you would pronounce the placenames Inveraray or Tobermory in quite a different way to me! Will that do? I hope so.....I'd be just a wee bit angrrrry otherrrwise.... ;-)
St Patrick's Day 17 March 2009
Sure t'is St Patrick's Day! The Star of the County Down Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK I've not yet been to but I've seen it as clear as a bell across the St George Channel from the coast of Galloway here in Scotland. I have been on a day trip to Dublin, in the Republic of Ireland though...on a ferry from North Wales. A group of lusty lads a' signin' of the fair colleen with the nut brown hair - the star of the County Down...but they are not actually Irish - they're from Belgrade, in Serbia! But they're good with the Irish brogue even though you can tell they are not Irish but they certaonly capture the traditional Irish singing style well so we'll bestow the title of Honorary Celts on them. ;-) Their interpretion of the Oirish is very 19th century in this clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEt2XdN_TbQ&feature=related Near Banbridge town, in the County Down One morning in July Down a boreen green came a sweet colleen And she smiled as she passed me by. She looked so sweet from her two white feet To the sheen of her nut-brown hair Such a coaxing elf, I'd to shake myself To make sure I was standing there. From Bantry Bay up to Derry Quay And from Galway to Dublin town No maid I've seen like the sweet colleen That I met in the County Down. The Mountains of Mourne sweep down to the sea.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEZIKSm78k8 Oh Mary this London's a wonderful sight with the people here working by day and by night They don't sow potatoes nor barley nor wheat But there's gangs of them digging for gold in the street At least when I asked them that's what I was told So Ijust took a hand at this digging for gold But for all that I found there I might as well be Where the Mountains of Mourne sweep down to the sea There are very large numbers of Irish people, or people of Irish descent, living in the UK and they are all wearing the green today and going on parades - the populations of both Glasgow and Liverpool* are probably at least half Irish by descent, and down in Camden Town in London there is practically an Irish pub on every street corner, Guinness is the local elixir of life and wee leprechauns have this disconcerting habit of jumping out at you from behind lamp-posts. *The Scouse accent of Liverpool and Merseyside is strongly influenced by the Irish. Happy St Paddy's Day to all our fellow Celts over in Oirland...both North in the "UK part" and South in the Republic. How nice to see Google bedecked with the green of the shamrock.
Actually, Ireland is not 100% rhotic. Working-class Dublin accents can be variably rhotic. A good example of one of these is this recording of a Dublin taxi driver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDebYISFVA&feature=related (Most of the instances of non-rhoticity are at the end of the recording.) |