ESL speakers speaking English in their accents...

Why do people who learn English as a second language speak English in their accents, rather than trying to put on an English accent or even American Accents? While if we learned French, or Japanese or something, we would make an effort to speak in a FRENCH accent, not an AMERICAN or ENGLISH accent?

I think it's maybe because English is diverse and it doesn't have one universal accent like Spanish. American and English are equally accepted. Also, it kind of shows how English is the only true international language, a de facto language with less ties to nationality etc.

STILL, it would be nice if some of them learned to speak more correctly, not with their strong foreign accents.

Yeah I agree, I hate it when people just wont stop rolling their 'r's. This is really annoying! Another one is when they refuse to pronounce 'h' without that throaty aspiration. At least with the 'r' I can understand that it might not be so easy, but the 'h' is especially annoying as it's not even hard to do.

Really? You think they're not trying?

When a sound does not exist in your native language, it's really hard to pronounce that particular sound. H might be easy for you, but hard for others. A french r is easy for me, but I doubt that it would be easy for you. And there is nothing wrong with rolling an English r. Scottish people do that all the time.

Well, as for English speakers learning other languages, take French for example, Americans would always sound American, no matter what. That's speaking from experience. I've never met an American who speaks French with a French accent in my life.

I often think the dilemma is...

Premise 1: English is the most popular foreign/second language (we don't need the distinction between the two here), and many people don't prefer learning any foreign language other than English at all. At least, in general, many people don't learn one. Most learn English only. Our best foreign language is often English.

Premise 2: We use English far more often than any others, even though some of us do learn other languages. In fact, this is more commonplace than exceptional. Many people don't just learn English. I was taught Mandarin owing to compulsory education, so I don't really have to start all over again.

But again, in Hong Kong, I read written Chinese slightly more than English, I speak far less English, but... for speaking, my share is 99% Cantonese, 1% for both English and Mandarin. But at the university, I actually have fewer chances to speak Mandarin than English. First, Chinese isn't the official language in Hong Kong universities. Second, Mandarin-speaking teaching staff is the minority, and they don't speak that much Mandarin at all unless you contact them in person. Most Mandarin-speaking students speak (compromised) Cantonese to me, maybe for practice. In a way, I can well say that Mandarin isn't at all more important than English here. English is apparently more popular.

Since English is most popular and most used across cross-cultural interactions, it follows that I can't expect foreigners to speak other languages. (I normally speak Chinese to other Chinese, regardless of nationality) It also follows that people speak English more often with non-native speakers. But non-native speakers by definition always speak with a compromise, a compromise in grammar/vocab/pronunciation, etc. Since we can't even expect a clear accent from every single non-native speaker, either, it's simply too commonplace to hear almost unintelligible accents.

For the average Chan, an English accent of a Chinese person, especially a local female, might often strike him as being very fluent/good, simply because it's foreign-like. But this proves nothing at all to the more experienced ear. Girls here tend to speak an accent that doesn't resemble the typical choppy Cantonese accent... but I can tell instantly that it's not at all native-like. Just yet another Chinese accent, a pseudo-American accent (which I speak too, somehow). Since we often have too little time for accents... I can only say having a clear accent is already decent enough. In terms of overall oral communicative competence, many FEMALE students here are often quite competent...with a pseudo-American accent.

Sorry for not sticking to the point, but does Spanish have one universal accent? I highly doubt it.

I've never met an American who speaks French with a French accent in my life.

I've never met an American or a French who speaks Italian with an Italian accent in my life!

What an appropriate example of the USA(UK) school system to have to ask this question in the first place!

Do you think we are not trying to speak native-like English accents at all?
And do you REALLY think Americans' (Or British people's) Japanese accent is native-like?
Western people's attempt at Konnichiwa or Arigato is nowhere near close to the actual Japanese pronunciation.

Mamma Mia!

«Estel Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:29 am GMT
Really? You think they're not trying?

When a sound does not exist in your native language, it's really hard to pronounce that particular sound. H might be easy for you, but hard for others. A french r is easy for me, but I doubt that it would be easy for you. And there is nothing wrong with rolling an English r. Scottish people do that all the time.

Well, as for English speakers learning other languages, take French for example, Americans would always sound American, no matter what. That's speaking from experience. I've never met an American who speaks French with a French accent in my life. »

Agree with you. You can hear at almost every person where he comes from when he's speaking a 2nd language,
This doesn't mean they're not trying, it means that some sounds are difficult for them.

@ Trimac20
I want you to speak to Dutch with the guttural G! I'm sure you won't be able to speak it, as 99% of the foreigners who use the more Belgian 'G'.
But hey, you didn't try enough wasn't it??

Actually, it's better to speak French with a Canadian accent, or Spanish with a Guatemalan accent to people that have little exposure to those accents. You might just pass for a native speaker.

"I think it's maybe because English is diverse and it doesn't have one universal accent like Spanish"

lol, wth are you talking about? Spanish has more accents than English, that adds to the lenguage's flavour.

English is fairly uniform if you don't count some of the more extreme northern and Scottish dialects compared to many other languages.

>>Do you think we are not trying to speak native-like English accents at all?
And do you REALLY think Americans' (Or British people's) Japanese accent is native-like?
Western people's attempt at Konnichiwa or Arigato is nowhere near close to the actual Japanese pronunciation.<<

I don't care at all whether Anglophones would learn a second language at all, just as I won't care at all whether native speakers of my second languages would. I've heard foreign learners who spoke my native language, and very often, it sounds awful, almost unintelligible, so I need at least a clear accent. But a clear accent isn't enough. I have to be at least native-like to speak fluently, which further aids communication. All in all, just like "learning English" itself according to Antimoon, learning to speak like a native makes me feel good.

I don't like it when non-native English speakers use the cliché come back "why don't YOU learn a foreign language?" whenever I tell them they are doing something wrong. Yes, I don't know a foreign language fluently and maybe I couldn't, but that doesn't change the FACT that your English is bad, bad, bad.

And while most people don't need to know English that great, it annoys me when a professional person whose job requires excellent English is incompetent. So what if they're trying? In that case I say they should try harder until they get it right or get fired and look for a new job which doesn't require high English standards.

very very furious

I suppore You're an arrogant and uneducated guy..... Am I wrong?

I don't give a fuck what do you think about my accent. If i have something to say you're going to listen, accent or no accent. Who wants to blend in with a bunch of stupid septic tanks anyway.