BrE or AmE in your country??

Damian in Edinburgh   Sat May 23, 2009 9:01 am GMT
I think most Brits would envy all the SPACE you guys in America have - you have so much more scope for expansion than we have on this crowded little island.

Our open countryside, known as "greenfield sites", is now very much protected simply because it's so precious. Since WW2 a massive amount of open countryside in much of lowland Britain (in particular England) was built on and what was once pleasant green meadowland or pastureland or even agricultural land became so called "New Towns" - probably the most well known of which is Milton Keynes.

In the early 1960s Milton Keynes was a tiny wee village with a population of just 800 or so - a scattering of houses and cottages, a pub and a church and a village shop surrounded by peaceful, verdant countryside.

Now it is a still growing modern city which is home to almost 400,000 people, and the original Milton Keynes is now some kind of museum piece, still protected as such, but surrounded by huge housing developments, shopping centres and business and commercial enterprises.

Our capacity for expansion is very much limited and controlled, and one thing Americans in particular notice when they come over here are such things as narrow roads (even the new motorways - the first of which in the UK was the M1 in 1959 - are generally six lanes, three in either direction), compact houses, small fridges, everything comparatively close together and such things. So when Americans tell us that "everything is bigger back home in the States" - well, they tell the truth. As I say, we have very little scope to get "bigger".

Our open countryside is very, very precious.
Cian   Sat May 23, 2009 4:47 pm GMT
<<I think most Brits would envy all the SPACE you guys in America have - you have so much more scope for expansion than we have on this crowded little island.>>

I think you over estimate our ability to expand and you unwittingly assume that one would want to or that it should be done.

The least populated parts of the U.S. are unpopulated for a reason. Would you want to live in Death Valley or on the Tundra with six months of dark? Not only do most people not want to live in such places, the environment makes it near impossible. One cannot build a huge host of cities in the desert where you have little water. One of those technical problems one comes across when trying to expand in some areas of the world. Of course, Brittan doesn't have that particular problem. Phoenix, I believe, is the largest desert city in the U.S. As it is, supplying water there has become a huge issue both for the people and the environment.

And honestly, I really don't want to see the U.S. become too much more populated than it is. People bring filth wherever they go. I really would prefer the nature that is left here to remain nature.
Jasper   Sat May 23, 2009 6:15 pm GMT
Cian, in the spirit of this discussion: if Damian were ever to come to Nevada, I'd very much like to take him on one of those backroads in Nevada. In the same way that I just cannot comprehend villages being 1 or 2 miles apart (even in New England, as one poster has kindly noted), I don't think he'd be able to comprehend the idea of many miles separating residences.

The Nevada Desert holds some interesting surprises, as I'm sure you know. As for sagebrush and sand—of course you have that—but you can find verdant valleys populated by groves of aspens that change to brilliant red or orange in the fall, along with obscure lakes and even wetlands, in the area around Jarbidge. You can also find weird places that seem to echo several ecosystems at the same time. The quiet in these wildernesses is unnerving to a city boy, and has to be experienced to be believed.

Cian, I'm assuming you already know about Jarbidge. I'd been contemplating taking the Southern route, along dirt roads, to get there for a get-away, but, to be honest, I'm chicken; if my car breaks down, there's a substantial risk of peril, and some of those dirt roads are treacherous, anyway, with two-foot potholes, if one Internet traveller has suggested.

Cian, despite our former differences of opinion on details, you'd be an interesting guy to get to know because of your experience "back there". I'd like to hear more about them, if you ever get into a talkative mode.

If you want to talk about details: well, I guess I'm just not very good at them. I've had to correct myself on details three times in this thread alone, and I apologize to those whom I've unintentionally misled.

Now I guess we need to get back to the topic, lest we get in trouble with the moderators. ;-)
Cian   Tue May 26, 2009 2:08 am GMT
Yes, of course, Jasper. There are some beautiful bodies of water in the Basin and Range Province. Here is Havasu Falls in Havasu canyon. It joins the Colorado river in the Grand Canyon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYs5zyM9zk8&feature=related

Such places are to be expected in a basin and range type of terraform.
And here is why developing in these areas can be very difficult:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQ0GSMw600
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhpevdl2Sng&feature=PlayList&p=29DE21B8630CD5FC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10
Uriel   Thu May 28, 2009 1:05 am GMT
Americans use "wee hours of the morning/night" all the time, and we don't consider it a Briticism ... at all.

Speaking as another desert rat from a sparsely-populated state, I have to say that we New Mexicans find our harsh environment dangerous yet stunningly beautiful ... and we're also pleased that it keeps the riffraff out. Stay your ass in Phoenix, guys! You can't handle the real thing.
Jasper   Thu May 28, 2009 3:14 am GMT
↑ (smiles)

Uriel, your own state holds some particularly compelling mysteries, too. The story of the Lost Adams Diggings (which is located somewhere very remote in the New Mexico wilderness) is enough to get most of us with a spirit of adventure in a real state of excitement. :-)

Not to mention the Taos Hum.

Interesting state, indeed: my kind of place.
Washingtonian   Thu May 28, 2009 3:51 am GMT
While you're at it, be sure to visit the desert that we have here in Washington state.
excalifornian   Thu May 28, 2009 1:17 pm GMT
<<Interesting state, indeed: my kind of place. >>

Isn't the US southwest really dangerous now? -- drug wars and all that
AmE   Thu May 28, 2009 3:33 pm GMT
Br.english is a dead language.
^^^   Thu May 28, 2009 4:49 pm GMT
How is that?
Jasper   Thu May 28, 2009 4:56 pm GMT
"While you're at it, be sure to visit the desert that we have here in Washington state."

:-)

I have had the pleasure of riding through that desert, years ago on a Greyhound bus ride.

Most Americans think of Washington as rain, clouds, and gloom like Seattle. But it does indeed have a desert, on the other side of the Cascades around the area of George, Washington—a desert complete with sagebrush and sand. It's a fascinating surprise to find.

"Isn't the US southwest really dangerous now? -- drug wars and all that"

The Southwest is far too large an area to categorize any certain way.
Uriel   Sat May 30, 2009 4:56 am GMT
Nope. The southwest is not any more dangerous than it was five years ago. I assume you are referring to the nuttiness going on in Cd. Juarez and some other Mexican border cities. Well, none of their mayhem seems to cross the border, even though Juarez is only an hour from my house. People are a little more cautious about going there if they don't have to -- remember than Juarez and El Paso are essentially one big city and people cross back and forth all day long -- but Juarez has always been a bit of a shithole, I'm afraid. Even Mexicans will tell you that.

The desert is indeed gorgeous, and the skies are absolutely immense. Nothing is more spectacular than driving through miles of vast emptiness into a massive desert thunderstorm, with the sun beating down on you as the clouds pile up into an awesome display that looks downright biblical. And NM is also very mountainous, being situated at the tail end of the Rockies, so no matter where you are or where you look, on every horizon you will see mesas or hills or jagged spikes of rock. Some mountains are oases of cool pines and aspens and wildflowers, but many are simply bare rock with a smattering of mesquite and yucca.

And if you are attuned to the desert, it's not hard to notice that each of the US's four deserts have their own characteristic look, with variations in topography and vegetation. I've driven from NM's Chihuahuan desert to Arizona's Sonoran desert, and you can easily see the change between them as you head west. I've flown over Utah and Nevada and seen the cold, barren snowscapes that mark the Great Basin in the winter. I remember flying for long stretches without seeing lights or habitations of any kind, just lonesome, rugged wilderness untouched by man. You definitely take a minute to look around the plane and size up your fellow passengers as potential meals should you ever crash-land in that country!

It's not hard to imagine arid lands in the Pacific Northwest as you move east into the rain shadow of the Cascades -- after all, Nevada and the southwest are desert because they lie in the rain shadow of the Sierra Nevada....
fairy   Sat May 30, 2009 6:07 am GMT
In my country, the Czech Rebublic (not Czechoslovakia, this state was divided into two different countries 20 years ago - the Czech Rebublic and Slovakia), there isn't taught BrE or AmE, most of teachers teach simply English, they mix both British Eng. and American Eng. I think it's confusing for many students, because when they decide to study English at some university, they suddenly don't know the differences and it's embarrassing for them, as it was for me.
In Czech, the students end the studies at high school with the final exam (the subjects depend on the type of school), if it's the English language, most of the finals are really easy and I saw many students who got the mark a or 2 (the same as A or B) and they couldn't speak English at all, so far from knowing differences between AmE and BrE. I found out these distinctions as late as I became attending the university.
I think it really is a pity and a big disadvantage for Czech students.
Robin Michael   Sat May 30, 2009 5:01 pm GMT
I know it is slight off subject. But I took a Greyhound bus from Reno to Las Vegas through the night. It was a long time ago, and I remember very little about it. However I do remember stopping in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the night, at a Casino, where there was a poker game going.

The other thing I remember was the rust in the middle of car bonnets, presumbably because of dew in the morning.
Jasper   Sat May 30, 2009 5:15 pm GMT
"The other thing I remember was the rust in the middle of car bonnets, presumbably because of dew in the morning."

That's strange, indeed, Robin Michael, because this area is so dry that we don't get rust or dew. At least, the RENO area doesn't get rust or dew; I don't know about Tonopah, etc.

Tonopah was probably the little town you stopped at. It's quite a distance from the nearest town (Goldfield), which is quite a distance, still, from Yerington.

I took that same trip in the middle of the night once, but we drove. I'd been helping a friend move to Los Angeles; we took that route because she believed (erroneously, as it turned out) that the border authorities didn't check for plants or firewood at the Las Vegas area check station. We drove at night; I saw very few cars, and no residences at all between the various towns.

Cian has suggested that my impressions from this mid-night trip have been mistaken, and I believe him. I do remember feeling a growing concern over the lack of human habitation—if my car broke down, how would I get help? It was the era before cell phones, and even in this day, there are no cell towers in that area.

URIEL: something you said was interesting, too. Our conversations until now have focused on areas that are accessible by road. What about all the other areas, accessible only on foot? We're talking about many square miles of emptiness...