T.S. Eliot's accent

MrPedantic   Sun May 10, 2009 12:03 am GMT
Liz has already cleared the unnecessary confusion, on several counts; but to confirm:

<For such a great poet, he had a terrible voice>

This is a non sequitur because the second clause does not follow from the first. Thus "being a great poet" does not entail "having a voice that isn't terrible".

(Not that I would agree with the second clause, in any case.)

Best wishes,

MrP
Caspian   Tue May 12, 2009 4:02 pm GMT
<< Poetry in Britain is not popular. >>

But sweeping statements in America are.

Of course poetry is popular, we have had some of the greatest poets in the history of the English language! We all study poetry at school, as well as analytic techniques, and enjoy it a great deal.

Please don't make such exaggerated, incorrect statements on behalf of mt country.
Liz   Tue May 12, 2009 5:03 pm GMT
Caspian: Robin Michael is British. At least, he lives in Britain (as far as I know).
Cian   Tue May 12, 2009 5:23 pm GMT
Actually, Caspian, the word popular necessarily must, by definition, be a generalization or a "sweeping" one. And the generalization that poetry is not popular in England as well as The United States, France, Australia, China, etc. is a true one. Poetry is not a popular form, it is a high art, which, by definition, is not popular. And even if this this distinction were not the intended one of the original poster, the truth is that poetry is not widely read in any nation outside the classroom. This doesn't mean that there are not people that love poetry, even devote themselves to it. It just means that the majority of people do not, and thus it is not popular. If it were popular, one would not have difficulty supporting themselves by writing poetry. No matter how you look at it, the original poster is correct in this instance.
MrPedantic   Tue May 12, 2009 10:34 pm GMT
<Poetry is not a popular form>

I would have said that poetry was extremely popular, in the form of nursery rhymes, mnemonics, adolescent scribblings, limericks, lyrics, advertising slogans, greetings card verses, etc.

MrP
coward   Tue May 12, 2009 11:26 pm GMT
<<<Poetry is not a popular form>

I would have said that poetry was extremely popular, in the form of nursery rhymes, mnemonics, adolescent scribblings, limericks, lyrics, advertising slogans, greetings card verses, etc.

MrP >>


He meant proper poetry. Ie, books that you buy or get at the library with poems in them. Advertising slogans are to real poetry what infomercials are to film. Adolescent scribblings are to real poetry what home-made Youtube videos are to real film.
MrPedantic   Tue May 12, 2009 11:40 pm GMT
<Adolescent scribblings are to real poetry what home-made Youtube videos are to real film. >

I see that you use "poetry" and "film" as terms of absolute approbation, rather than descriptive terms.

But how would that make sense? It implies that, to your mind, there are no poor poems, no bad films.

MrP
coward   Wed May 13, 2009 12:00 am GMT
<<I see that you use "poetry" and "film" as terms of absolute approbation, rather than descriptive terms.

But how would that make sense? It implies that, to your mind, there are no poor poems, no bad films.

MrP>.

No, I know there are many bad films and a lot of bad poetry. I personally hate the stuff. The difference is the intention and expectations. Proper films/poems are at least intended to be taken seriously, and if they don't it's because it was a failure, not because it was so amateurish it was written off before even being created.
Cian   Wed May 13, 2009 3:04 pm GMT
Mr. P. the difference here is one of writing and reading. Many people will write poetry, incredibly bad poetry, but do not read it or make an attempt at creating an original work. They wont go to the effort of learning the form, they will make limericks and nursery rhymes of their own, things that they remember hearing from their earliest ages, just a reproduction of things that were written centuries ago. Dead things from when poetry was popular, from when poetry was published in the daily newspapers in prominent positions.

No, if you wanted to show that poetry is still popular, you would only have to cite music lyrics. Yet, that is still getting away from poetry in its truest since--approaching the bankrupting of language by over expanding the term, "poetry". I was responding to someone who was claiming that reading poetry, books of poetry, was "popular". It is not.

The question we have to contend with is not what is good poetry and what is bad poetry, it is what is reproduction and what is art?

An original reproduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_xU6mKhBVQ&feature=PlayList&p=4CA2EC1CA62BFC74&index=3

Art: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRQapdNY-F4

Art: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co0CGv9K5SI
Damian London E14   Wed May 13, 2009 6:38 pm GMT
***Robin Michael is British. At least, he lives in Britain (as far as I know).***

Aye, he does.....in Aberdeen, on the coast of north east Scotland, and it's known as the Granite City. I wonder if you can work out why it's called that?

Aberdeenshire....home of the Aberdeen Angus steak. A misprint on a hotel menu recently stated that one of the house specialities was a nice juicy Aberdeen Anus steak. I don't know whether or not their were many ordered by the punters that night....
Tiggy   Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:12 am GMT
Which reference to anal things brings me back to T. S. Eliot. I just watched a tv documentary about him and he sems very anal and repressed. His family had strong links with Boston so I expect his accent was more a posh Boston one, but even so... I don't see how he could have lost his American accent to such an extent, although in his day there was less of a difference between a posh Boston and posh British accent. I do wonder if he secretly had elocution lessons.

I'm not sure the thirties was an era of dead-pan reading of poetry. I think he just wasn't very good at reading aloud and a bit shy and probably not used to expressing emotion. I felt sorry for the beautiful first wife who went mad. It seems odd that he avoided and ignored her so much. Has anyone seen the film about them, 'Tom and Viv'?