It isn't arrogance or overconfidence. It's simply silly provincialism on both of your parts, one Engerlish style and one Dixie-style.
PS - Uriel: Flattery will get you nowhere...
PS - Uriel: Flattery will get you nowhere...
What accent do you really hate? and which one you love?
>>“…..lets face it people we invented English”
I have to agree with that also. Always thought it the height of arrogance for yankee-Americans to come up with something called “Standard American English”. Ain’t that somewhat of an oxymoron? Shouldn’t it just be Standard English (the Queen’s English)?
Don’t get me wrong here! I am not saying that I speak or write English very well (and yeah, I’m stating the obvious). Just making an observation.<<
Umm, no. Present-day English English and North American English are equally descended from later Early New English, with neither being "more original" than the other.
Furthermore, a different standard language is used in the US than in England, and a minor variation upon it is used in Canada. To simply call Received Pronunciation "Standard English" is to imply that the standard language used here *isn't* standard or at least is subordinate to it. This is despite the fact that Received Pronunciation is not followed as a standard in any fashion here, unlike in much of the Commonwealth.
Consequently, to call Received Pronunciation "Standard English" is to try to artificially impose a monocentric model upon English even though English is fundamentally pluricentric in nature today. Such is to deny that the English-speaking world is not centered on England today, and that England is but one English-speaking country today, as much as some may wish to think otherwise for one reason or another.
I have to agree with that also. Always thought it the height of arrogance for yankee-Americans to come up with something called “Standard American English”. Ain’t that somewhat of an oxymoron? Shouldn’t it just be Standard English (the Queen’s English)?
Don’t get me wrong here! I am not saying that I speak or write English very well (and yeah, I’m stating the obvious). Just making an observation.<<
Umm, no. Present-day English English and North American English are equally descended from later Early New English, with neither being "more original" than the other.
Furthermore, a different standard language is used in the US than in England, and a minor variation upon it is used in Canada. To simply call Received Pronunciation "Standard English" is to imply that the standard language used here *isn't* standard or at least is subordinate to it. This is despite the fact that Received Pronunciation is not followed as a standard in any fashion here, unlike in much of the Commonwealth.
Consequently, to call Received Pronunciation "Standard English" is to try to artificially impose a monocentric model upon English even though English is fundamentally pluricentric in nature today. Such is to deny that the English-speaking world is not centered on England today, and that England is but one English-speaking country today, as much as some may wish to think otherwise for one reason or another.
We didn't call it standard American English to piss people off, we called it that because FOR US it is standard. We're not going to make you change the way you speak, so it's not like we're imposing our standards on other people. So what's the big deal. Another thing: what is this strange misconception that we go around shouting everything. Maybe its from the movies where the actors have to speak so clearly and whisper to each other loud enough for people in the next building to hear. I'm not sure, but we don't all yell to each other when we're in the same room as everyone so obviously thinks. I'm sorry if this all sounds very egotistical (which I'm not really) but I'm in a very bad mood today and people are just as likely to piss me off as not for something I usually wouldn't care about.
Well, can’t argue with a whole lot you say here.
Nevertheless when it is “biled” down to the essence and said another way whatever is called “standard” or “substandard” English has little to do with anything except who has the military and economic power.
In other words it is just another case of “might makes right”. Yankee-Americans could at least acknowledge that and stop pretending that they have some kind of commission from God-Almighty Himself to decide.
That might be the beginning of an improvement in their arrogant attitude!
Nevertheless when it is “biled” down to the essence and said another way whatever is called “standard” or “substandard” English has little to do with anything except who has the military and economic power.
In other words it is just another case of “might makes right”. Yankee-Americans could at least acknowledge that and stop pretending that they have some kind of commission from God-Almighty Himself to decide.
That might be the beginning of an improvement in their arrogant attitude!
"What accent do you really hate? and which one you love?"
Well, a title like that for a thread is hardly likely to invite much objective opinion about language.
And - no surprise! It didn't.
Travis is correct: BE and AE are equal siblings.
Regarding the idea of "Standard English," I always get a chuckle. SE is one of those "useful fictions" that allows us to impose certain formal language requirements.
I've never met anyone who actually speaks SE though.
Well, a title like that for a thread is hardly likely to invite much objective opinion about language.
And - no surprise! It didn't.
Travis is correct: BE and AE are equal siblings.
Regarding the idea of "Standard English," I always get a chuckle. SE is one of those "useful fictions" that allows us to impose certain formal language requirements.
I've never met anyone who actually speaks SE though.
<<Umm, no. Present-day English English and North American English are equally descended from later Early New English>>
correct! for obvious reasons.
<<with neither being "more original" than the other.>>
Highly incorrect! also, for obvious reasons.
(The non native Englishs speaker)
Edit: standard English is British English (no offence). The other commonwealth countries uses the same system too (spelling), you do not. So those commonwealth nations has more in common with the original language than you "ever" had. You could say that commonwealth English should be viewed as *the* standard (were not talking about accents here).
correct! for obvious reasons.
<<with neither being "more original" than the other.>>
Highly incorrect! also, for obvious reasons.
(The non native Englishs speaker)
Edit: standard English is British English (no offence). The other commonwealth countries uses the same system too (spelling), you do not. So those commonwealth nations has more in common with the original language than you "ever" had. You could say that commonwealth English should be viewed as *the* standard (were not talking about accents here).
<<Such is to deny that the English-speaking world is not centered on England today>>
countries outside the native English speaking sphere, teaches British English in their school systems (exception: Japan and china, I believe). So though UK does not have the most native English speakers in the world, does not matter in that "centre" approach of yours. Their English (spelling) is still the norm, sorry to burst your bubble.
countries outside the native English speaking sphere, teaches British English in their school systems (exception: Japan and china, I believe). So though UK does not have the most native English speakers in the world, does not matter in that "centre" approach of yours. Their English (spelling) is still the norm, sorry to burst your bubble.
<<The other commonwealth countries uses the same system too (spelling), you do not.>>
This isn't entirely true. I'm Canadian, and while we do use -our and -re (labour, centre), we also use -ize, like Americans and unlike most British writers. We never use such spellings as gaol, tyre, and kerb (though I think those are declining in popularity in the UK as well).
<<countries outside the native English speaking sphere, teaches British English in their school systems (exception: Japan and china, I believe). So though UK does not have the most native English speakers in the world, does not matter in that "centre" approach of yours.>>
British English (or more specifically RP) are basically only taught in Europe and in former British colonies. Latin Americans generally learn American English, as do most Asians. Even in India, which was a British colony and has its own standard variety of English, American English is becoming more popular. The vast majority of English learners use American English.
As Travis said above, English is a pluricentric language, which means that there is more than one standard form. British and American are the two most important, but Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. all have their own standards that vary to some extent from the others. It seems that some Englishmen (and they are mostly men) can't give up the idea of the British Empire. England is not the centre of the world! Get over it.
<< <<with neither being "more original" than the other.>>
Highly incorrect! also, for obvious reasons. >>
Sorry, it's you who is highly incorrect. American English is an equally standard form as British English and neither is more original than the other, despite non native English speaker's assertion above. All languages change, and modern British English is different in many ways from the common ancestor of British and American English.
This isn't entirely true. I'm Canadian, and while we do use -our and -re (labour, centre), we also use -ize, like Americans and unlike most British writers. We never use such spellings as gaol, tyre, and kerb (though I think those are declining in popularity in the UK as well).
<<countries outside the native English speaking sphere, teaches British English in their school systems (exception: Japan and china, I believe). So though UK does not have the most native English speakers in the world, does not matter in that "centre" approach of yours.>>
British English (or more specifically RP) are basically only taught in Europe and in former British colonies. Latin Americans generally learn American English, as do most Asians. Even in India, which was a British colony and has its own standard variety of English, American English is becoming more popular. The vast majority of English learners use American English.
As Travis said above, English is a pluricentric language, which means that there is more than one standard form. British and American are the two most important, but Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. all have their own standards that vary to some extent from the others. It seems that some Englishmen (and they are mostly men) can't give up the idea of the British Empire. England is not the centre of the world! Get over it.
<< <<with neither being "more original" than the other.>>
Highly incorrect! also, for obvious reasons. >>
Sorry, it's you who is highly incorrect. American English is an equally standard form as British English and neither is more original than the other, despite non native English speaker's assertion above. All languages change, and modern British English is different in many ways from the common ancestor of British and American English.
<<British English (or more specifically RP) are basically only taught in Europe and in former British colonies>>
Get over the RP, I was refering to the way words are spelt; not accents and dialects. And in that respect British English is the norm (in the school systems) or even better yet *the* commonwealth English!
<<Sorry, it's you who is highly incorrect. American English is an equally standard form as British English and neither is more original than the other, despite non native English speaker's assertion above>>
You missed my point.
<<All languages change>>
Yes they do, and you have to look at how they change, have changed!
<<It seems that some Englishmen (and they are mostly men) can't give up the idea of the British Empire>>
also for obvious reasons ;)) let them live with that notion if they wish.
Get over the RP, I was refering to the way words are spelt; not accents and dialects. And in that respect British English is the norm (in the school systems) or even better yet *the* commonwealth English!
<<Sorry, it's you who is highly incorrect. American English is an equally standard form as British English and neither is more original than the other, despite non native English speaker's assertion above>>
You missed my point.
<<All languages change>>
Yes they do, and you have to look at how they change, have changed!
<<It seems that some Englishmen (and they are mostly men) can't give up the idea of the British Empire>>
also for obvious reasons ;)) let them live with that notion if they wish.
damnit, I should have read the topic! ok, I like American southern accents very much and I like English accents spoken by the French :) I can´t say that I dislike any accents really, so I leave that bit.
<<That might be the beginning of an improvement in their arrogant attitude!>>
Silly people. Arrogance is one of our charms!;)
<<PS - Uriel: Flattery will get you nowhere... >>
Since when, my sweet? It's always worked for me before....
<<Another thing: what is this strange misconception that we go around shouting everything. Maybe its from the movies where the actors have to speak so clearly and whisper to each other loud enough for people in the next building to hear. I'm not sure, but we don't all yell to each other when we're in the same room as everyone so obviously thinks.>>
And that's the damn truth, Rene. When I was in England, I didn't notice any difference in the volume at which people spoke.
Silly people. Arrogance is one of our charms!;)
<<PS - Uriel: Flattery will get you nowhere... >>
Since when, my sweet? It's always worked for me before....
<<Another thing: what is this strange misconception that we go around shouting everything. Maybe its from the movies where the actors have to speak so clearly and whisper to each other loud enough for people in the next building to hear. I'm not sure, but we don't all yell to each other when we're in the same room as everyone so obviously thinks.>>
And that's the damn truth, Rene. When I was in England, I didn't notice any difference in the volume at which people spoke.
You didn't notice any difference because there isn't any. It's silly and portrayed to the point of charicature, but this volume factor really doesn't exist. Unfortunately it's conventional wisdom in old blighty - among other English-speaking countries.
Uriel - If I wouldn't by default be forced to ditch my beautiful wife, baby girls and puppy, I might be digging on you a little...
Uriel - If I wouldn't by default be forced to ditch my beautiful wife, baby girls and puppy, I might be digging on you a little...
>><<Such is to deny that the English-speaking world is not centered on England today>>
countries outside the native English speaking sphere, teaches British English in their school systems (exception: Japan and china, I believe). So though UK does not have the most native English speakers in the world, does not matter in that "centre" approach of yours. Their English (spelling) is still the norm, sorry to burst your bubble.<<
You do realize that a supermajority of native English speakers today live in the US alone (that is not even counting in Canada), do you? And considering that the US has its own spoken standard fully independent of Received Pronunciation and its own written standard separate from (if close to) British English, it is hard to say that the English language today is centered upon English English even if such may be more popular than North American English as a second language in areas such as Europe and India. And that is ignoring the present political positions of the US and the UK today to begin with.
countries outside the native English speaking sphere, teaches British English in their school systems (exception: Japan and china, I believe). So though UK does not have the most native English speakers in the world, does not matter in that "centre" approach of yours. Their English (spelling) is still the norm, sorry to burst your bubble.<<
You do realize that a supermajority of native English speakers today live in the US alone (that is not even counting in Canada), do you? And considering that the US has its own spoken standard fully independent of Received Pronunciation and its own written standard separate from (if close to) British English, it is hard to say that the English language today is centered upon English English even if such may be more popular than North American English as a second language in areas such as Europe and India. And that is ignoring the present political positions of the US and the UK today to begin with.
"You do realize that a supermajority of native English speakers today live in the US alone..."
Psst, Travis: don't confuse 'em with the facts.
Psst, Travis: don't confuse 'em with the facts.