How d u think Chinese wud replace English as lengua franca?

Jasper   Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:49 pm GMT
KT, taking into account your experience as an adult learning Mandarin, do you agree with my contention that it's too difficult a language for a lingua franca?
K. T.   Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:45 pm GMT
Jasper, I am probably not a good example. I enjoy languages-both the sounds and the writing of languages are very exciting for me. I chimed in just because I do think it is possible for adults to learn Mandarin.

On the other hand, yes, I would agree, the challenges of learning Mandarin probably limit the possibility of it being a lingua franca in the west.
eeuuian   Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:34 pm GMT
<<I reckon Japanese learning would be just as much of a challenge to a westerner, especially of the British variety, who are not at all regarded as being good linguists, by and large. >>

Surely, the British are better linguists than the (US) Americans?

Around here, knowing a foreign language can be regarded as somewhat unpatriotic or even unAmerican. I suppose it's OK to study foreign languages in school, just to check the box for your foreign language requirement for entrance to college. Actually learning foreign languages (especially in output mode) is frowned upon by many.

Especially suspicious would be anyone who enjoys learning foreign languages, or studies them when they don't have to.

(Let me add that out of all subjects in school, foreign languages were absolutely the worst IMHO, followed not too closely by English Literature).
K. T.   Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:05 pm GMT
Of course, it's suspicious if Billy Bob wants to speak French, likes designing clothes and his dad is NOT a couturier. Get in the house, son and watch basketball, no, FOOTBALL, then the redneck games. You heard me.
Beathag   Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:17 am GMT
In Texas, everyone expects you to speak English AND Spanish. Grrr...
So, it's not weird to learn languages everywhere. Though when people find out that I am learning French, they actually wrinkle their noses and go 'WHY?'. That never fails to piss me off lol
Damian in Europa   Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:08 pm GMT
Uriel - you're right about the greater influence some of the larger states of the Europa have in the running and administration of the entire European Union......that's to be expected I suppose.

Mostly the constituent nations are divided into two sections - the overall contributors, and the overall recipients...speaking mainly of financial support here. Currently the main recipients are those former Communist controlled states who were admitted fairly recentloy, and who are now gradually adapting to theie new status.

One or two of these former Communist countries are having a wee bit of a hard time ridding themselves of corruption and everything dubious and underhand which latrgely controlled their societies under the Communist regime, and one such in particular could be in danger of being ejected from the Union until they really get their act together over corrupt practices of all kinds.

FRance, Germany and the UK may well be thought of as being "Big Boys" in the European scene, but that does not mean they are "superior".

I'd just like to think that all 27 of us are of equal value and of equal worth in the new Europa....immensely diverse in so many ways, but all equal to one another. I don't think it's a pipe dream at all, I really don't!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyDEmyrXlV0&feature=related
cnablis   Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:47 pm GMT
<<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyDEmyrXlV0&feature=related >>

From that video, it appears that Europe is almost completely urbanized, and very religious.
Uriel   Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:24 pm GMT
Well, Damian, no one is saying any country or state is inherently superior to any other, just that in practical terms, some will be more influential than others. Resources and population and other deciding factors are never equally distributed across anyone's geography.

I have never heard of anyone being castigated for learning a foreign language. And while Spanish is probably the more popular language in most of the US, French is still very widely taught. My half sister, who just graduated from high school, took French. I think she would have mentioned it if gangs of teenagers had followed her from class, taunting her about crepes and pelting her with rotten fruit. She's pretty open like that.;)
K. T.   Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:43 pm GMT
"I have never heard of anyone being castigated for learning a foreign language."

It depends on the language, Uriel. It happens a lot. Believe me, librarians, bookstore clerks, relatives, etc., comment on this kind of thing.

I wouldn't comment on someone if they took out fly-fishing books, or romance novels, but languages-no! Why some of them must be as dirty as porn from the reactions people have!
K. T.   Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:00 pm GMT
Generally speaking, I have found that people in the USA think it is okay to learn Spanish even if they don't like Mexicans or Latin Anericans. People know that it may be a requirement for some jobs.

People may think it is "smart" to learn the language du jour-like Arabic or Chinese. People also understand that in certain fields you may study languages. Seminary students learn Hebrew/and or Greek. Opera singers learn Italian, and possibly other languages. Chemistry or Engineering students may study German for reading. People who work near Canada may learn French.

The problem is when there is no obvious reason-learning languages becomes a questionable activity.

Tell people it's good against dementia (well, Alzheimer's anyway) and tell them that you want to be sharp so you can scheme their money away when they are seniors who only filled their mind with Nascar and romance novels...no, don't, but you get the idea.
Beathag   Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:49 am GMT
>>Tell people it's good against dementia (well, Alzheimer's anyway) and tell them that you want to be sharp so you can scheme their money away when they are seniors who only filled their mind with Nascar and romance novels...no, don't, but you get the idea. <<

Great idea K.T. :-D
eeuuian   Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:50 am GMT
<<The problem is when there is no obvious reason-learning languages becomes a questionable activity.>>

Actually, any unnecessary intellectual activity is frowned upon by some folks in the US. Much better to be out fishing, or hunting bears, deer, geese, or whatever else is overrunning the place.

Maybe you remember the 1968 Presidential campaign of George Wallace and Curtis E LeMay (the greatest big-bomber general of all time -- my idol). Wallace complained then about "pointy-headed intellectuals", and in certain quarters there's still a general anti-intellectual tendency here in the US. Consider the creationists and their rants about the "PHDs" who are trying to sell everybody on evolution.
Uriel   Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:06 am GMT
My dad put many a meal on the table with a shotgun when I was little -- deer, squirrel, and goose -- and can also quote Shakespeare. At length. Speaks two languages and can get by with survival German. And I don't think he's all that unusual. Stereotypes are fun and all, but not that enlightening when you start breaking them down into their component parts and applying them to real people.
K. T.   Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:41 am GMT
I'm sure your Dad is smart, Uriel. You are.

Okay, I gotta know. Beathag, why are you learning French? I thought you were into the Gaelic languages. Are you interested in languages in general?

I have nothing against French, btw.
K. T.   Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:57 am GMT
"Maybe you remember the 1968 Presidential campaign of George Wallace and Curtis E LeMay (the greatest big-bomber general of all time -- my idol). Wallace complained then about "pointy-headed intellectuals", and in certain quarters there's still a general anti-intellectual tendency here in the US. Consider the creationists and their rants about the "PHDs" who are trying to sell everybody on evolution."

I don't, actually. But I know who both of them are. I know of LeMay from aircraft museums, chiefly.

I don't find creationists to be anti-intellectual across the board. Physicists are sometimes creationists, or at least not orthodox followers of Darwin.

But I agree that there seems to be somewhat of an anti-intellectual bias in the States in some places. I haven't decided what it is. For some it may just be a caution to be modest, for others it is a hint of that some of what is evil is intellectual.