the letter C!

Hopeful   Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:39 pm GMT
Caesar and Cicero pronounced their names like "Kaisar" and "Kikero" while they lived, so why have we started to pronpunce the letter C like S in many names?
Easterner   Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:34 pm GMT
The shift occurred in mediaeval Latin, under the influence of the original /k/ becoming /s/ before /i/ and /e/ in evolved versions of Vulgar Latin, at least in Western Romance languages (in Italian and Romanian, however, it became /ch/). Thus, Caesar came to be pronounced /Sezar/ in mediaeval Latin, and Cicero as /Sisero/. Interestingly, when I hear chorus pieces sung in Latin, the "c" is often pronounced as /ch/ by European ensembles, which may reflect the way it was pronounced in Latin by Italians (but I am not completely sure about the last bit)

The same is true for Celt/Celtic, with the difference that both /k/ and /s/ are acceptable in English today. See more on the pronunciation of this word at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_Celtic
Tiffany   Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:43 pm GMT
You're right Easterner.

In Italian, a "C" before an "e" or "i" is pronounced "ch".

For example: cicciola (plump) chi-cho-la.

Put a "h" between the "c" and the "e" or "i" - hard c.

Che - Ke (Sounds exactly like Spanish "Que")
Chi - Ki (literally sounds like "Key" in English)

The letter "G" has similar rules, but then they are closer to English pronunciation so don't seem so strange to me. I had a lot of trouble with the "c" when I started Italian. Just something to get used to.
Tiffany   Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:44 pm GMT
Oh, "che" means "what" in Italian and "chi" means who.
JakubikF   Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:58 pm GMT
I'd say that pronounciation "c" like "s" or "k" is unknown for slovian languages in general. In these languages people pronounce "c" like in german "Zwiebel".
Easterner   Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:01 pm GMT
>>I'd say that pronounciation "c" like "s" or "k" is unknown for slovian languages in general. In these languages people pronounce "c" like in german "Zwiebel".<<

Yes, it is the same in Hungarian. We also say "Tsistsero" and "Tsezar". But since the change of pronunciation came about in spoken mediaeval Latin, I suppose the "c" was originally pronounced either /s/ or /ch/, depending on which country one was from. It was because of this that all Europe finally adopted a fricative or affricate sound for this letter.
Georgero   Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:53 pm GMT
@Hopeful

"Caesar and Cicero pronounced their names like "Kaisar" and "Kikero" while they lived, so why have we started to pronpunce the letter C like S in many names?"

How can you say that for sure????
Aldvs   Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:30 pm GMT
Here,

Kikero (latin) (in Spanish, "Kike" is used as a shortening of "enrique")
chichero (italian)
thithero (Castilian)
sisero or ssissero (Latin-america)

All of them have something similar....

Que (Spanish)
Che (Italian)
Ce (Latin)

Qui (Spanish)
Chi (Italian)
Ci (Latin)
Georgero   Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:03 am GMT
@Aldvs
Italians and Romanians say Cicero (Tchitchero) and not Chichero (Kikero). Also Cesar/Cezar (Tchezar) not Chesar (Kezar).

Italian and Romanian correspondent of Latin "Ci" and "Cae" are exactly "Ci (Tchi)" and "Ce (Tche)" and not Chi (Kee) and Che (Ke).
Aldvs   Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:34 pm GMT
Georgero, yeah I know.....but I did it from a Spanish perspective.
yaseen shaikh   Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:23 am GMT
you havent written the diffrences between c and k sounds.
el metido   Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:07 am GMT
there is no qui in spanish
if you whant to say who you use quien with the en but i know what you meant