Some ppl say they are the same language. The difference between them is just like "American and British English". They should have the same name which is called "Malay language".
Indonesian vs Malaysian
Nampaknya di forum ini tidak ada yang tertarik dalam bahasa Melayu.
Bahasa Indonesia dan Melayu yang digunakan di Malaysia adalah serupa, tetapi mereka tidak sama.
Bahasa Indonesia dan Melayu yang digunakan di Malaysia adalah serupa, tetapi mereka tidak sama.
Ketika program TV Indonesia ditampilkan di televisi Malaysia, sub judul diperlu bagi penonton untuk memahami dialog.
Berbeda kata-kata yang digunakan dalam kedua-dua bahasa,
Misalnya, kata "snow" adalah "salju" di bahasa Indonesia tetapi "salji" dalam bahasa Malaysia.
Kedua-dua bahasa juga memiliki tata bahasa yang berbeda.
Maafkan aku! Bahasa Indonesia saya tidak baik.
Berbeda kata-kata yang digunakan dalam kedua-dua bahasa,
Misalnya, kata "snow" adalah "salju" di bahasa Indonesia tetapi "salji" dalam bahasa Malaysia.
Kedua-dua bahasa juga memiliki tata bahasa yang berbeda.
Maafkan aku! Bahasa Indonesia saya tidak baik.
I'm Indonesian and had spent the last couple of weeks with Malaysians.
We realized that our languages are over 95% the same. The difference is comparable to Croatian and Serbian, or Urdu and Hindi. Unlike those languages though, we even have the same writing system.
@38:
Do you honestly think an Indonesian wouldn't understand a Malaysian saying "salji" instead of "salju"?
Some of the differences I noticed between Malaysian and Indonesian:
because:
M: kerana
I: karena
window:
M: tingkap
I: jendela
second:
M: saat
I: detik
when:
M: bila
I: kapan
Even with those differences we still understand each other perfectly.
We realized that our languages are over 95% the same. The difference is comparable to Croatian and Serbian, or Urdu and Hindi. Unlike those languages though, we even have the same writing system.
@38:
Do you honestly think an Indonesian wouldn't understand a Malaysian saying "salji" instead of "salju"?
Some of the differences I noticed between Malaysian and Indonesian:
because:
M: kerana
I: karena
window:
M: tingkap
I: jendela
second:
M: saat
I: detik
when:
M: bila
I: kapan
Even with those differences we still understand each other perfectly.
jendela
this words is very interesting, it must come from the Portuguese Janela = window
this words is very interesting, it must come from the Portuguese Janela = window
I presume that the difference between Indonesian and Bahasa Malaysia is greater than that between British English and American English. They may be mutually intelligible when used in daily conversation but the differences in spelling, pronunciation and vocabulary can lead to incomprehension when both languages are used for higher level communication such as formal conversation or written communication. Indonesian has many words of Javanese and Dutch origin whereas Bahasa Malaysia has many words derived from English.
I have a list of words that shows different Malay words used in Indonesia and Malaysia:
(English) – (Bahasa Malaysia) – (Indonesia)
afternoon – tengah hari – sore
airport – lapangan terbang – bandara
August – Ogos – Agustus
bag – beg – Tas
billion – bilion – miliar, milyar
bus stop – perhentian bas – halte bus
carrot – lobak merah – wortel
cashier – juruwang – kasir
cinema – panggung wayang – bioskop
city – bandar – kota
cockroach – lipas – kecoak
dandraff – kelemumur – ketombe
department – jabatan – departemen
emergency – kecemasan – darurat
factory – kilang – pabrik
furniture – perabot rumah – mebel
hospital – hospital – rumah sakit
March – Mac – Maret
mattress – tilam – kasur, matras
office – pejabat – kantor
receipt – resit, penerimaan – kwitansi
rob – rompak – rampok
shoe – kasut – sepatu
shop – kedai – toko
spoon – sudu – sendok
Sunday – Ahad – Minggu
tyre – tayar – ban
zoo – taman haiwan – kebun binatang
(Please correct me if you find any mistakes.)
********************************************************
janela Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:23 pm GMT
jendela
this words is very interesting, it must come from the Portuguese Janela = window
*********************************************************
You're right. The Malay language has many words borrowed from Portuguese.
I have a list of words that shows different Malay words used in Indonesia and Malaysia:
(English) – (Bahasa Malaysia) – (Indonesia)
afternoon – tengah hari – sore
airport – lapangan terbang – bandara
August – Ogos – Agustus
bag – beg – Tas
billion – bilion – miliar, milyar
bus stop – perhentian bas – halte bus
carrot – lobak merah – wortel
cashier – juruwang – kasir
cinema – panggung wayang – bioskop
city – bandar – kota
cockroach – lipas – kecoak
dandraff – kelemumur – ketombe
department – jabatan – departemen
emergency – kecemasan – darurat
factory – kilang – pabrik
furniture – perabot rumah – mebel
hospital – hospital – rumah sakit
March – Mac – Maret
mattress – tilam – kasur, matras
office – pejabat – kantor
receipt – resit, penerimaan – kwitansi
rob – rompak – rampok
shoe – kasut – sepatu
shop – kedai – toko
spoon – sudu – sendok
Sunday – Ahad – Minggu
tyre – tayar – ban
zoo – taman haiwan – kebun binatang
(Please correct me if you find any mistakes.)
********************************************************
janela Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:23 pm GMT
jendela
this words is very interesting, it must come from the Portuguese Janela = window
*********************************************************
You're right. The Malay language has many words borrowed from Portuguese.
Here is a list of matched Portuguese-Malay words:
sugar – gula – acúcar
cupboard - almari – armário
stool – bangku - banquinho; banco
bed – kamar – cama
head – kepala – cabeça
tape – pita – fita
cage – jala - jaula / gaiola
ball – bola – bola
goose – angsa – ganso
champion – jaguh – jogo
beach – pantai – praia
lace – renda – renda
wheel – roda – roda
wineglass – kaca – taça
towel – toalha – tuala
sultan – sultan – sultão
tyre - aro, virola, pneu, roda - tire
sugar – gula – acúcar
cupboard - almari – armário
stool – bangku - banquinho; banco
bed – kamar – cama
head – kepala – cabeça
tape – pita – fita
cage – jala - jaula / gaiola
ball – bola – bola
goose – angsa – ganso
champion – jaguh – jogo
beach – pantai – praia
lace – renda – renda
wheel – roda – roda
wineglass – kaca – taça
towel – toalha – tuala
sultan – sultan – sultão
tyre - aro, virola, pneu, roda - tire
<< I presume that the difference between Indonesian and Bahasa Malaysia is greater than that between British English and American English. They may be mutually intelligible when used in daily conversation but the differences in spelling, pronunciation and vocabulary can lead to incomprehension when both languages are used for higher level communication such as formal conversation or written communication. Indonesian has many words of Javanese and Dutch origin whereas Bahasa Malaysia has many words derived from English.
I have a list of words that shows different Malay words used in Indonesia and Malaysia:
(English) – (Bahasa Malaysia) – (Indonesia)
afternoon – tengah hari – sore
airport – lapangan terbang – bandara
August – Ogos – Agustus
bag – beg – Tas
billion – bilion – miliar, milyar
bus stop – perhentian bas – halte bus
carrot – lobak merah – wortel
cashier – juruwang – kasir
cinema – panggung wayang – bioskop
city – bandar – kota
cockroach – lipas – kecoak
dandraff – kelemumur – ketombe
department – jabatan – departemen
emergency – kecemasan – darurat
factory – kilang – pabrik
furniture – perabot rumah – mebel
hospital – hospital – rumah sakit
March – Mac – Maret
mattress – tilam – kasur, matras
office – pejabat – kantor
receipt – resit, penerimaan – kwitansi
rob – rompak – rampok
shoe – kasut – sepatu
shop – kedai – toko
spoon – sudu – sendok
Sunday – Ahad – Minggu
tyre – tayar – ban
zoo – taman haiwan – kebun binatang >>
American and British English used to be very different from each other too, yet with the influence of modern media mutual intelligibility and influence have increased.
I read that a group of English people who were shown an American movie back in 1940's had difficulty understanding it, but nowadays they understand most Americans without problems. Interestingly, many Americans, or native English speakers from outside of the British Isles for that matter, still find certain British accents almost incomprehensible even today.
It has a lot to do with mutual exposure and interest.
I used to think that Malaysian was hard to understand, but my experiences proved otherwise.
As for the words you listed, we Indonesians understand most of them for various reasons.
Salam
I have a list of words that shows different Malay words used in Indonesia and Malaysia:
(English) – (Bahasa Malaysia) – (Indonesia)
afternoon – tengah hari – sore
airport – lapangan terbang – bandara
August – Ogos – Agustus
bag – beg – Tas
billion – bilion – miliar, milyar
bus stop – perhentian bas – halte bus
carrot – lobak merah – wortel
cashier – juruwang – kasir
cinema – panggung wayang – bioskop
city – bandar – kota
cockroach – lipas – kecoak
dandraff – kelemumur – ketombe
department – jabatan – departemen
emergency – kecemasan – darurat
factory – kilang – pabrik
furniture – perabot rumah – mebel
hospital – hospital – rumah sakit
March – Mac – Maret
mattress – tilam – kasur, matras
office – pejabat – kantor
receipt – resit, penerimaan – kwitansi
rob – rompak – rampok
shoe – kasut – sepatu
shop – kedai – toko
spoon – sudu – sendok
Sunday – Ahad – Minggu
tyre – tayar – ban
zoo – taman haiwan – kebun binatang >>
American and British English used to be very different from each other too, yet with the influence of modern media mutual intelligibility and influence have increased.
I read that a group of English people who were shown an American movie back in 1940's had difficulty understanding it, but nowadays they understand most Americans without problems. Interestingly, many Americans, or native English speakers from outside of the British Isles for that matter, still find certain British accents almost incomprehensible even today.
It has a lot to do with mutual exposure and interest.
I used to think that Malaysian was hard to understand, but my experiences proved otherwise.
As for the words you listed, we Indonesians understand most of them for various reasons.
Salam
>>head – kepala – cabeça
I think "kepala" is from sanscrit "kapala" (skull).
I think "kepala" is from sanscrit "kapala" (skull).
<< I think "kepala" is from sanskrit "kapala" (skull). >>
I think so too.
'Kapala' is on the other hand related to 'cephalos' in Greek or Latin.
I think so too.
'Kapala' is on the other hand related to 'cephalos' in Greek or Latin.
Wong,
In Malaysia, many non-formal Malay words have evolved from innovations of standard Malay words or are incorporated from other languages. These words are used mainly by the urban community and seen in comics, and they may even appear strange to the older generation of Malay speakers.
Here are some examples:
(formal word) – (non-formal word) – (English)
ambil – amik - take
boleh – bleh/bleh - can
cantik – cun – cool/awesome
dekat/di – kat - at
gadis – awek – girlfriend/girl
kenapa – nape - why
macam mana/bagaimana – camne - how
makan/minum – pekena – to eat/drink
mana – ne - where
mari – jom – let’s go
mari – meh - come
pergi – gi - go
sahaja – je - only
selepas itu – pastu – after that
tahu – tau - know
tidak boleh – takleh/tokleh - cannot
tidak payah – tak yah – not necessary
Is this phenomenon uniquely Malaysian or is it happening in Indonesia as well? Are Indonesians able to understand these non-formal Malay words?
In Malaysia, many non-formal Malay words have evolved from innovations of standard Malay words or are incorporated from other languages. These words are used mainly by the urban community and seen in comics, and they may even appear strange to the older generation of Malay speakers.
Here are some examples:
(formal word) – (non-formal word) – (English)
ambil – amik - take
boleh – bleh/bleh - can
cantik – cun – cool/awesome
dekat/di – kat - at
gadis – awek – girlfriend/girl
kenapa – nape - why
macam mana/bagaimana – camne - how
makan/minum – pekena – to eat/drink
mana – ne - where
mari – jom – let’s go
mari – meh - come
pergi – gi - go
sahaja – je - only
selepas itu – pastu – after that
tahu – tau - know
tidak boleh – takleh/tokleh - cannot
tidak payah – tak yah – not necessary
Is this phenomenon uniquely Malaysian or is it happening in Indonesia as well? Are Indonesians able to understand these non-formal Malay words?
This is happening in Indonesia as well.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons why we don't have much trouble understanding Malaysians. We're used to divergences from the standard language ourselves.
In my experience, I usually am able to decipher the meaning of formerly unknown words through context.
If I don't manage to guess it at all, I'll just ask what it means, and that would be enough.
We also need to remember that Indonesia is a huge country. So the slang may develop differently in different parts of the country.
I've heard Indonesians saying pastu, gi, kat, awek. Perhaps they come from Sumatra or Kalimantan. I don't know. Anything is possible.
Napa, aja, and tau are variations that I use myself.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons why we don't have much trouble understanding Malaysians. We're used to divergences from the standard language ourselves.
In my experience, I usually am able to decipher the meaning of formerly unknown words through context.
If I don't manage to guess it at all, I'll just ask what it means, and that would be enough.
We also need to remember that Indonesia is a huge country. So the slang may develop differently in different parts of the country.
I've heard Indonesians saying pastu, gi, kat, awek. Perhaps they come from Sumatra or Kalimantan. I don't know. Anything is possible.
Napa, aja, and tau are variations that I use myself.
<< sugar – gula – açúcar
cupboard - almari – armário
stool – bangku - banquinho; banco
bed – kamar – cama
head – kepala – cabeça
tape – pita – fita
cage – jala - jaula / gaiola
ball – bola – bola
goose – angsa – ganso
champion – jaguh – jogo
beach – pantai – praia
lace – renda – renda
wheel – roda – roda
wineglass – kaca – taça
towel – toalha – tuala
sultan – sultan – sultão
tyre - aro, virola, pneu, roda - tire >>
'Kamar' means room.
It's probably a loanword from Dutch 'kamer'.
Cf. German 'Kammer', French 'chambre', Latin 'camera'.
'Jala' is net. Although it's possible that it originally meant cage.
Champion is 'jago'. At least in my accent.
Are you sure that 'pantai' is related to 'praia'?
'Kaca' means glass in general, and IMO it sounds very different from Portuguese 'taça'. Doesn't 'taça' mean cup?
cupboard - almari – armário
stool – bangku - banquinho; banco
bed – kamar – cama
head – kepala – cabeça
tape – pita – fita
cage – jala - jaula / gaiola
ball – bola – bola
goose – angsa – ganso
champion – jaguh – jogo
beach – pantai – praia
lace – renda – renda
wheel – roda – roda
wineglass – kaca – taça
towel – toalha – tuala
sultan – sultan – sultão
tyre - aro, virola, pneu, roda - tire >>
'Kamar' means room.
It's probably a loanword from Dutch 'kamer'.
Cf. German 'Kammer', French 'chambre', Latin 'camera'.
'Jala' is net. Although it's possible that it originally meant cage.
Champion is 'jago'. At least in my accent.
Are you sure that 'pantai' is related to 'praia'?
'Kaca' means glass in general, and IMO it sounds very different from Portuguese 'taça'. Doesn't 'taça' mean cup?
I found the list here:
http://utmk.cs.usm.my/pdf/ASEAN_04x.pdf
http://utmk.cs.usm.my/pdf/ASEAN_04x.pdf