I'm in agreement about the point about Slavic languages. From the little Russian I have studied, the verb conjugations are much more regular and fairly simple compared to Romance languages (which makes sense linguistically, but that's another topic). Of course, the case system and usage makes up for that difficulty quickly! Russian and Japanese are still my perceived most difficult languages to learn for a non-native. (I'm not saying Japanese is slavic, just through that tid-bit in there)
Spanish Verbs vs. French Verbs
Estoy muerto is not an idiom, what makes you think that?
Estoy muerto means I'm tired as well.
Estoy muerto means I'm tired as well.
Umm... you just contradicted yourself, because surely the usage for estoy muerto meaning I'm tired is an idiom... it can be done the same way in English, and it's still an idiom.
Regardless, I corrected myself already. You must have not read that.
Regardless, I corrected myself already. You must have not read that.
Japanese verbs have very few irregularities compared to languages like Spanish and French.
They say that only the verbs "suru" and "kuru" are irregular, but there are really a few more irregularities.
For example, the negation of "aru" is simply "nai", not "aranai", and the past tense of "iku" is not "iita", but "itta". In addition, the renyoukei of certain honorific and humble verbs is slighty irregular: "irasshai" instead of "irasshari", "nasai" instead of "nasari", "osshai" instead of "osshari", "kudasai" instead of "kudasari", etc.
Other than that, there are no irregularities in conjugations.
They say that only the verbs "suru" and "kuru" are irregular, but there are really a few more irregularities.
For example, the negation of "aru" is simply "nai", not "aranai", and the past tense of "iku" is not "iita", but "itta". In addition, the renyoukei of certain honorific and humble verbs is slighty irregular: "irasshai" instead of "irasshari", "nasai" instead of "nasari", "osshai" instead of "osshari", "kudasai" instead of "kudasari", etc.
Other than that, there are no irregularities in conjugations.
<<
This is ridiculous! Some slavic languages are light easier than the latin languages as far verbs as concerned, for instance Russian has fewer tenses, the only difficult thing in slavic languages are the verbal aspect and verbs of motion. >>
<<I'm in agreement about the point about Slavic languages. From the little Russian I have studied, the verb conjugations are much more regular and fairly simple compared to Romance languages (which makes sense linguistically, but that's another topic). Of course, the case system and usage makes up for that difficulty quickly! Russian and Japanese are still my perceived most difficult languages to learn for a non-native. (I'm not saying Japanese is slavic, just through that tid-bit in there) >>
Try using something before you say it's easy. The romance languages may win in mechanical terms, ie, counting up the number of conjugations (although I doubt it). But they are fairly straight forward to learn, especially for an English speaker. On the other hand Slavic verbs, even the most simple ones, are still incorrectly used by students after 10 years of study.
And then there is aspect and prefixing of prepositions, which has no analogue in Romance languages
glotat', glotnut', sglotat', sglatyvat', sglotnut', zaglotat', zaglatyvat', zaglotnut', proglotit', proglatyvat', etc
All of them mean 'to swallow' and come from the same root.
This is ridiculous! Some slavic languages are light easier than the latin languages as far verbs as concerned, for instance Russian has fewer tenses, the only difficult thing in slavic languages are the verbal aspect and verbs of motion. >>
<<I'm in agreement about the point about Slavic languages. From the little Russian I have studied, the verb conjugations are much more regular and fairly simple compared to Romance languages (which makes sense linguistically, but that's another topic). Of course, the case system and usage makes up for that difficulty quickly! Russian and Japanese are still my perceived most difficult languages to learn for a non-native. (I'm not saying Japanese is slavic, just through that tid-bit in there) >>
Try using something before you say it's easy. The romance languages may win in mechanical terms, ie, counting up the number of conjugations (although I doubt it). But they are fairly straight forward to learn, especially for an English speaker. On the other hand Slavic verbs, even the most simple ones, are still incorrectly used by students after 10 years of study.
And then there is aspect and prefixing of prepositions, which has no analogue in Romance languages
glotat', glotnut', sglotat', sglatyvat', sglotnut', zaglotat', zaglatyvat', zaglotnut', proglotit', proglatyvat', etc
All of them mean 'to swallow' and come from the same root.
As for "le passé simple or preterito indefinido, (simple past) if you learn them deeply the French one is much more irregular than the Spanish one. Probably the Spanish preterito indefinido is the easiest the and most regular one amongst the latin languages. It has got only two different conjugation forms unlike French, Portuguese and Italian:
1 conjugation yo CAnté (II and III conjugation) yo comi, yo parti and so on. Besides it just has few exceptions compared to the FRench passé simple and particularly the Italian passato remoto.
The Spanish present perfect is really easy, it makes use of one auxiliary verb (to have) plus the past participle. The Spanish past participle is by far the most regular amongs the latin languages.
1 conjugation yo CAnté (II and III conjugation) yo comi, yo parti and so on. Besides it just has few exceptions compared to the FRench passé simple and particularly the Italian passato remoto.
The Spanish present perfect is really easy, it makes use of one auxiliary verb (to have) plus the past participle. The Spanish past participle is by far the most regular amongs the latin languages.
All of them mean 'to swallow' and come from the same root. //
It's like phrasal verbs in English:
pisati = to write
otpisati = to write off
Pismo je pisano.
The letter has been written.
Auto je otpisan.
The car has been written off.
It's like phrasal verbs in English:
pisati = to write
otpisati = to write off
Pismo je pisano.
The letter has been written.
Auto je otpisan.
The car has been written off.
<<All of them mean 'to swallow' and come from the same root. //
It's like phrasal verbs in English:
pisati = to write
otpisati = to write off
Pismo je pisano.
The letter has been written.
Auto je otpisan.
The car has been written off. >>.
pisat', zapisat', zapisyvat', zapisannyj vs. zapisan, pisavshij vs. zapisavshij vs. zapisyvavshij, etc
It's like phrasal verbs in English:
pisati = to write
otpisati = to write off
Pismo je pisano.
The letter has been written.
Auto je otpisan.
The car has been written off. >>.
pisat', zapisat', zapisyvat', zapisannyj vs. zapisan, pisavshij vs. zapisavshij vs. zapisyvavshij, etc
pisati = to write
zapisati = to write down
zapisivati = to be writing down
no biggie
zapisati = to write down
zapisivati = to be writing down
no biggie
French indeed has the simplest verb morphology of all the major romance languages, but what makes it difficult for me is the confusing syntax.
Spoken Brazilian indeed has the simplest verb morphology, despite Portuguese originally had lots of tenses and moods, the Brazilian version has been reducing them drastically.. For most Brazilian children the classical Portuguese grammar is a sort of dead and very difficult language to learn.
Spoken Brazilian indeed has the simplest verb morphology, despite Portuguese originally had lots of tenses and moods, the Brazilian version has been reducing them drastically..
//I don't think this is true. Spoken Brazilian Portuguese has:
1. maintained some classical/archaic features of Continental Portuguese, like
a) using the preposition EM (in) with verbs of movement:
''eu vou lá em casa'' [brazil] = ''vou lá a casa'' [portugal]
b) generalized proclisis (proclisis to the main verb):
''eu te amo [brazil] = ''amo-te'' [portugal]
''eu sei que vou te amar [brazil] = ''sei que te vou amar'' [portugal]
c) gerund:
''eu estou vendo'' [brazil] = ''estou a ver'' [portugal]
d) using ELE/ELA as direct objects instead of clitics:
''mataram ele'' [brazil] = mataram-no [portugal]
e) using FALAR to mean TO SAY
''falar verdade'' [brazil] = ''dizer verdade'' [portugal]
2. developed some unique characteristics, like:
a) moving from a pro-drop language to a preferable non-pro drop language:
''eu sabia que eu ia fazer isso, se eu pudesse''...[in brazil]
''sabia que ia fazer isso se pudesse'' [portugal]
b) fixed order with transitive verbs, with no inversion possible.
quem conhece você? = whom do you know [in portugal]?
quem conhece você? = who knows you [in brazil]?
c) EM with temporal future, like English IN:
''Eu chego em casa em 10 minutos'' [brazil]
''Chego a casa daqui a 10 minutos'' [portugal]
(chegar em casa, and em 10 minutos are not possible in Portugal)
d) FEITO used for comparisions
''Ela dançou feito louca'' [brazil; feito not used in Portugal]
e) Null objects preferred in Brazil, ignored in Portugal:
Seu amigo, você quer que eu chame? [brazil]
Ao teu amigo, queres que eu o chame? [portugal]
(Do you want me to call your friend?)
Meu livro, eu procurei, mas eu não achei [brazil]
Ao meu livro, procurei-o, mas não o achei. [portugal]
f) Formal Brazilian Portuguese likes using enclisis even with negative words (like nunca, não) or conjunctions like se, or que...
Se você chamar ela... (Spoken Brazilian)
Se você chamá-la... (Written Brazilian)
Se a chamar...(Continental Portuguese)
g) Brazilian Portuguese can use ESTAR with locations of buildings, sometimes even cities, just like Spanish, and unlike Continental Portuguese:
Onde está/é/fica o hotel mais próximo? (Brazilian)
Onde é/fica o hotel mais próximo? (Cont. Portuguese)
h) in Brazilian Portuguese there is a difference between ESTAR COM (temporary have, to be having) and TER (permanent have)
estar com medo (to be scared right now) ~ ter medo (to be affraid of something, always)
in Continental Portuguese they neglect this and like using TER for everything, regardless of their temporarity
i) Brazilian Portuguese does not like the preposition A, it's on a decline,
it's replaced with
-PARA in indirect object: Eu indiquei a professora para a escola.
-EM with chegar: Chegar em casa
-PARA or EM with verbs of movement: Ir para o Rio, ir na casa dela
j) Progressive tenses are more used in Brazilian Portuguese than in Continental Portuguese or Spanish?
Está vendo? (Br) ~ Estás as ver? but also Vês? (CntPt)
Quem está falando? (Br) ~ Quem fala? (Continental Pt)
k) Brazilian Portuguese uses condiational tense where Continental Portuguese like using Imperfect:
Eu gostaria de saber (Br) ~ Gostava de saber (Continental Portuguese)
I would like to know
So, Brazilian grammar is still complex, it's not simplified, it's just different.
And CapeVerdean creole language has a much more complex grammar than Brazilian Portuguese, even tho' it's a ''simplified'' (creole)
so...let's not generalize
//I don't think this is true. Spoken Brazilian Portuguese has:
1. maintained some classical/archaic features of Continental Portuguese, like
a) using the preposition EM (in) with verbs of movement:
''eu vou lá em casa'' [brazil] = ''vou lá a casa'' [portugal]
b) generalized proclisis (proclisis to the main verb):
''eu te amo [brazil] = ''amo-te'' [portugal]
''eu sei que vou te amar [brazil] = ''sei que te vou amar'' [portugal]
c) gerund:
''eu estou vendo'' [brazil] = ''estou a ver'' [portugal]
d) using ELE/ELA as direct objects instead of clitics:
''mataram ele'' [brazil] = mataram-no [portugal]
e) using FALAR to mean TO SAY
''falar verdade'' [brazil] = ''dizer verdade'' [portugal]
2. developed some unique characteristics, like:
a) moving from a pro-drop language to a preferable non-pro drop language:
''eu sabia que eu ia fazer isso, se eu pudesse''...[in brazil]
''sabia que ia fazer isso se pudesse'' [portugal]
b) fixed order with transitive verbs, with no inversion possible.
quem conhece você? = whom do you know [in portugal]?
quem conhece você? = who knows you [in brazil]?
c) EM with temporal future, like English IN:
''Eu chego em casa em 10 minutos'' [brazil]
''Chego a casa daqui a 10 minutos'' [portugal]
(chegar em casa, and em 10 minutos are not possible in Portugal)
d) FEITO used for comparisions
''Ela dançou feito louca'' [brazil; feito not used in Portugal]
e) Null objects preferred in Brazil, ignored in Portugal:
Seu amigo, você quer que eu chame? [brazil]
Ao teu amigo, queres que eu o chame? [portugal]
(Do you want me to call your friend?)
Meu livro, eu procurei, mas eu não achei [brazil]
Ao meu livro, procurei-o, mas não o achei. [portugal]
f) Formal Brazilian Portuguese likes using enclisis even with negative words (like nunca, não) or conjunctions like se, or que...
Se você chamar ela... (Spoken Brazilian)
Se você chamá-la... (Written Brazilian)
Se a chamar...(Continental Portuguese)
g) Brazilian Portuguese can use ESTAR with locations of buildings, sometimes even cities, just like Spanish, and unlike Continental Portuguese:
Onde está/é/fica o hotel mais próximo? (Brazilian)
Onde é/fica o hotel mais próximo? (Cont. Portuguese)
h) in Brazilian Portuguese there is a difference between ESTAR COM (temporary have, to be having) and TER (permanent have)
estar com medo (to be scared right now) ~ ter medo (to be affraid of something, always)
in Continental Portuguese they neglect this and like using TER for everything, regardless of their temporarity
i) Brazilian Portuguese does not like the preposition A, it's on a decline,
it's replaced with
-PARA in indirect object: Eu indiquei a professora para a escola.
-EM with chegar: Chegar em casa
-PARA or EM with verbs of movement: Ir para o Rio, ir na casa dela
j) Progressive tenses are more used in Brazilian Portuguese than in Continental Portuguese or Spanish?
Está vendo? (Br) ~ Estás as ver? but also Vês? (CntPt)
Quem está falando? (Br) ~ Quem fala? (Continental Pt)
k) Brazilian Portuguese uses condiational tense where Continental Portuguese like using Imperfect:
Eu gostaria de saber (Br) ~ Gostava de saber (Continental Portuguese)
I would like to know
So, Brazilian grammar is still complex, it's not simplified, it's just different.
And CapeVerdean creole language has a much more complex grammar than Brazilian Portuguese, even tho' it's a ''simplified'' (creole)
so...let's not generalize
Spoken Brazilian indeed has the simplest verb morphology, despite Portuguese originally had lots of tenses and moods, the Brazilian version has been reducing them drastically..
What about the second singular and plural forms of all verbs?? they have disappeared from Brazilan Portuguese, that means that Portguese verbs got simpler of about 30% compared to the French ones!
What about the second singular and plural forms of all verbs?? they have disappeared from Brazilan Portuguese, that means that Portguese verbs got simpler of about 30% compared to the French ones!
what's difficult about french negation? after have been studying it for.. 14 years now (started when i was 4) i'd say that the most difficult part for me is not using 'Anglicismes'.
i studied spanish in grade 9 and i thought that using ser/estar was pretty confusing. but i havent studied spanish long enough to be able to say which i think is a more difficult language to learn.
i studied spanish in grade 9 and i thought that using ser/estar was pretty confusing. but i havent studied spanish long enough to be able to say which i think is a more difficult language to learn.
''What about the second singular and plural forms of all verbs?? they have disappeared from Brazilan Portuguese, that means that Portguese verbs got simpler of about 30% compared to the French ones! ''
in Brazil, most people can do well with 3 verb forms
AMAR to love; present
eu AMO
você AMA
ele/ela AMA
a gente AMA
vocês AMAM
eles/elas AMAM
3 forms (AMO, AMA, AMAM)
in past tense, most people do well with only 2 forms:
eu AMAVA
você AMAVA
ele/ela AMAVA
a gente AMAVA
vocês AMAVAM
eles/elas AMAVAM
2 forms (AMAVA, AMAVAM)...
in Brazil, most people can do well with 3 verb forms
AMAR to love; present
eu AMO
você AMA
ele/ela AMA
a gente AMA
vocês AMAM
eles/elas AMAM
3 forms (AMO, AMA, AMAM)
in past tense, most people do well with only 2 forms:
eu AMAVA
você AMAVA
ele/ela AMAVA
a gente AMAVA
vocês AMAVAM
eles/elas AMAVAM
2 forms (AMAVA, AMAVAM)...