"French and Italian"? or "French and Spanish&

Guest   Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:54 am GMT
In São Paulo, could Brazilians understand Italian better than Spanish or not?

In Brazil people understand better Spanish than Italian. Spanish is a compulsory language at Brazilian schools from 2005.
Guest   Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:26 am GMT
And let's not ignore gastronomy! Learning Spanish can be the perfect excuse for enjoying the cuisine of Spanish speaking peoples. Burritos, tamales, paella, papusas, arroz con frijoles, ceviche, --- the list goes on and on, and is a delicious indicator of the vast diversity of Hispanic culture
.

That's traditional food only. Spanish "alta cocina" is considered nowadays the best in the world.
Ubuntu 9.10   Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:30 am GMT
Piacere! I'm neither Spanish nor Italian, so I wouldn't be heavily biased towards the choice. As you know, Italian is quite similar to Spanish in aspects of pronunciation, spelling, grammar, and word origin. Economically, the overall performance of Italy (especially Lombardia region) is almost the same as, even slightly better than Spain (excluding Latin America), both southern Spain and southern Italy are mostly poor places. From the perspective of data, Italy is 7th in GDP rankings while Spain is 9th, and Italy is also an important founding member of United Nations, while Spain joined the UN much later, with the aid of France, Italy, and Germany. Rough speaking, none of Spanish former colonies (Latin America) seems as good as Spain itself, perhaps Argentina, together with Brazil (Portuguese) and Chile, may be the best places among Hispanic world, objectively better than Mexico where people prefer running to USA on the sly as illegal immigrants. Well, let's not mention vulgar things snobbishly, no doubt Italian actually sounds far more melodiously than Spanish (harsh and noisy), and it also looks closer to Latin in some respects, particularly the prestige of learning Italian makes you have more noble disposition than Spanish does. So, imho, I think Italian is a good choice as a valuable language.
Harman   Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:39 am GMT
Combinated gdp hispanic world is much higher than only italian one.
Guest   Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:56 am GMT
Ubuntu 9.10,

You are wrong. I explain you. Italy is better than Spain in some economic data, and also the opposite. Spain is better now in some economic points. For example, Spain has better per capita and human development index than Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

It is true that a Latin American country is poorer than Italy. But, obviously, all Spanish speaking countries and people together are more powerful than Italy three times.

An example, only with the GDP of Hispanics in United States (some 45 million), Spain and Mexico, is probably bigger than the GDP of Germany, and of course, Italy. I don't take into account Latin America.


In all lists, Spanish is the second most powerful economic Western language, after English.
http://www.steinke-institut.de/sprachenundwirtschaft.htm
Ubuntu 9.10   Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:14 am GMT
Combinated gdp hispanic world is much higher than only italian one.


Why does the GDP of Spain need to combine with Hispanic world (more than 20 countries) to compete against Italy (only one country)? Is it a fair comparison or not?
Ubuntu 9.10   Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:26 am GMT
Hispanic world (more than “30” countries)
Guest   Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:38 am GMT
"Why does the GDP of Spain need to combine with Hispanic world (more than 20 countries) to compete against Italy (only one country)? Is it a fair comparison or not?"

When the GDP of China and USA will be very similar, English language will need to add UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and Ireland to compete against Chinese.

When the GDP of France and Brazil will be similar, French language will need to add Quebec, French Switzerland and French Belgium to compete against Portuguese.

And yes, it is a fair comparison in all examples...
LexDiamondz   Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:43 pm GMT
It would depend on where you live. If you're European, then I'd say that Italian & French would probably be more useful than Italian & Spanish. French is widely spoken as a first, second or third language throughout Europe, and Italian is more widely understood and known than Castellano is in Europe. Italian speakers can be found in many parts of Romania, Albania, Switzerland and parts of eastern Europe, whereas Spanish is largely limited to Spain.

However, if you're North American then Spanish & French are a much more useful combination. Also, its somewhat easier to pick up Italian after knowing Spanish and French
grammar   Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:57 pm GMT
Also, all letters are pronounced distinctly in Italian, with their own pronunciation, and all the sounds in Italian also exist in English, whereas in Spanish, there exist sounds which do not exist in English, and also it can be confusing because 'b' and 'v' have the same pronunciation, and 'c' can have the English 'th' sound in Spanish from Spain

In my view, Spanish pronunciation is easier than the Italian one, first of all Spanish has fewer phonemes than Italian. Particularly, Mexican Spanish is very simple to pronounce. It's not true that English has all the Italian sounds: English lacks gl, gn dz sounds, as well as the difference between double and simple consonants, a peculiar feature of the Italian Language. Besides l, ll, r, rr sounds are completely different from the English counterparts, even d and t sounds are quite different.
Last but not least the grammar. In my opinion the Spanish grammar is more regular and straightforward than the Italian one: articles, simple and compound prepositions, plurals, auxiliary verbs, pronominal particles: ci, vi, ve, ce are harder than in Spanish. Probably the difference between ser and estar is a bit more complicated in Spanish compared to the Italian essere and stare. In this regard, FRench is the easiest becauese the verb "estar/stare" doesn't even exist in French
Invitado   Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:32 pm GMT
"and Italian is more widely understood and known than Castellano is in Europe"

No. Nowadays Spanish is studied by a 6% of Europeans and Italian by a 3%.

Spanish is becoming an important language not only in North America and South America, but also in Europe. Just 3 examples:

SPANISH ON THE RISE IN EASTERN EUROPE
Looking for a place to practice your Spanish? Think Eastern Europe. According to a report issued this week by the Instituto Cervantes, Spanish is growing in popularity among students in places such as Romania, Hungary and the Czech Republic. The interest in Spanish is most spectacular in Poland, where the number of people studying the language is up 158.5 percent in the past four years
http://spanish.about.com/b/2003/07/03/spanish-on-the-rise-in-eastern-europe.htm

SPANISH IN GERMANY AND FRANCE
In Germany is the second most studied language, after English. In France is also the second, after English.
http://www.expresolatino.net/entretenimiento/auge-del-idioma-espanol-en-alemania.html
http://cle.ens-lsh.fr/46145591/0/fiche_pagelibre

SPANISH IN ENGLAND AND SCOTLAND
Spanish language is very studied in UK too. Spanish has more students than German.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/education/spanish-reigning-german-fading-in-our-schools-1.821981
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/spanish-overtakes-german-as-languages-decline-finally-halts-1050588.html
pou   Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:16 pm GMT
The answer is easy choose French and Italian because France and Italy are the nicest countries in Europe! The countries of fashion, style, design, delicious cuisine, gorgeous landscapes and beautufil cities: Venice, Paris, Rome, Florence, Nice are unique! Tuscany, Sardinia or Normandy and Brittany are incomparable. Well, if you love bullfight and tomatina you can decide to learn Spanish :-)
Dreamer   Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:18 am GMT
Grazie per tutti.
user   Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:37 am GMT
Obviously Franch and Spanish.
Ubuntu 9.10   Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:32 am GMT
Obviously Franch and Spanish.

Why Obviously???