do all Scottish, Irish and Welsh speak English?

sian   Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:53 pm GMT
It's not, it's just a normal way of life that you just don't seem to like just because you don't understand the need for anything other than the english way.

How sad.
Sian   Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:23 pm GMT
And on the question of why I am writing in english here is, that you have to sometimes, learn to speak a second language out of necessity to get your message across to people who will never bother trying. I have travelled widely, and it never ceases to amaze me, to hear English people generally in Italy, France, Spain, etc, always expecting the natives to give them directions,or understand their food requirements, in very limited English, rather than try and use a few phrases of their native tongue. I know from experience how much people from other countries appreciate interest and genuine effort in their cultures and languages. How good that everyone don't take a selfish, smallminded approach to life.
Pete   Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:44 pm GMT
You're right, Sian.
Franny   Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:39 pm GMT
Up here in Scotland they put on Gaelic program's from time to time,and the majority of Scot's bloody hate it when there on.Because they are so bad and nearly every second word is english anyway e.g- bara, bara, bara, bara, bara James Bond cara, cara, cara, cara, cara Mark's and Spencer.The Scot's that i know can't be botherd with it.
Saoririseoir   Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:50 pm GMT
A Ríona a chara,

Re: the the Scottish element of the original question, I'd say that, since the State's 2nd level education system (6th -12th Grade) is 20 years older in Britain and the Six Counties (late '40s instead of late '60s), it's far less likely that Scottish Gaelic speakers don't have English.

Within the past six years, I've met at least three elderly men on one of the Arran Islands whose English is extremely limited, at best. I've no doubt that there are many more such people living on the other islands. Inis Mór is the largest island, and has the most English spoken when the tourists have gone. I've heard it said that one third of the young people on that island now use English as their first language. The Gaeltacht policy is an expensive failure that promotes such gatekeeping absolutism as can be seen in this thread, but is doing little to promote the use of Gaelic in the home.

Saol fada, talamh gan cíos, agus bán in Éireann
(long life, land without rent, and death in Ireland)
zzz   Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:05 pm GMT
>> I have travelled widely, and it never ceases to amaze me, to hear English people generally in Italy, France, Spain, etc, always expecting the natives to give them directions,or understand their food requirements, in very limited English <<

The fact is that you guys understand us, and are willing to speak English to us, so, as they say, the simplest solution is always the best. You're the ones who choose to learn English. If you didn't think it was an important language to know, you wouldn't have chosen to learn it. And besides, why are you griping at us? You get free English practice! What could be better than that? And anyway, we Anglos are notoriously bad at reading phonetic transcriptions of other languages, because our language is not spelled very phonetically, so why would you want to have to suffer through listening to us butcher your language with a very bad accent? I know that if I knew Spanish, I would rather speak in Spanish to Spaniards who come to the US, rather than listen to their heavily accented English. So what gives?
zzz   Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:08 pm GMT
Message above in response to Siân.
sian   Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:04 pm GMT
"you get free english practice! What could be better than that!"

With all due respect, i could find many other, more worthwhile things to practice!! Living in north wales means you have no choice in learning English, even if you live within some of the main welshspeaking communities. Coastal towns' shops, doctors' surgeries, libraries, hospitals,restaurants, all employ non welsh speaking staff,(as well as welsh speaking in some cases). Staff who do so usually wear a badge denoting their bilingual skills. I could actually create a stink and ask for a welsh speaker every time I visit a shop, and living in Wales, I have the right to do so, but being Welsh also often means not making a fuss!

Sometimes I wish that we were more stubborn as a nation.

If we were, as "zzz" seems to be, quite happy in being lazy and expect everyone else to do the hard work (I always think in welsh and have to translate in my head before speaking or writing), then maybe the Welsh language(one of the oldest living languages in Europe) would not need so much protection and nurturing today.

My language is not just a tool to interact with, it defines who i am, my background,my ancestors, my culture, and is priceless to me. Welsh songs are often about love for our country and our people, (not just old songs, also songs composed today) , welsh poetry constantly evolves and is a unique, beautiful form of art. There are Welsh speaking celebrity chefs, singers, standup comics, satire shows, I could go on....., it just seems such a shame that people who come to live from cities into our small, closeknit communities, don't realise that we need their support and commitment, so that the welsh communities are not diluted any more than they have done already.

and yes, zzz, out of choice , I would MUCH rather you respect me by trying to converse with me in my native tongue when in Wales, even if it was only a short, simple phrase, badly pronounced, and with a dictionary in your hand! It would make my day !!
Riona   Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:35 pm GMT
A Shaoririseoir a chara,

Go raibh maith agat as do freagra. If you can't tell me any more I understand, you have still been very helpful to me. If you are willing

ceolannchicabee@yahoo.com

Beir bua agus beannacht
Damian in Edinburgh   Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:38 pm GMT
This weekend is a long holiday weekend here in Scotland - it's Hogmanay (the New Year), the wildest night of the year here, with next Wednesday being return to work time for most outside of the usual 24/7 services.

In Scotland, Christmas is mainly for the kids, while Hogmanay is for the adults!

Auld Lang Syne (literally meaning times gone by)

Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
And never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
And auld lang syne?

CHORUS:
For auld lang syne, my dear,
For auld lang syne,
We'll tak a cup o' kindness yet,
For auld lang syne!

And surely ye'll be your pint-stowp,
And surely I'll be mine,
And we'll tak a cup o kindness yet,
For auld lang syne!

We twa hae run about the braes,
And pou'd the gowans fine,
But we've wander'd monie a weary fit,
Sin auld lang syne.

We twa hae paidl'd in the burn
Frae morning sun till dine,
But seas between us braid hae roar'd
Sin auld lang syne.

And there's a hand my trusty fiere,
And gie's a hand o thine,
And we'll tak a right guid-willie waught,
For auld lang syne

A traditional Scottish song
by Rabbie Burns (1759-96)

Scots seem to be alone in singing this song properly - "for the sake of" and "in days of" are "foreign" adaptions. Neither do we cross over our arms as they do in England - we just hold hands with whoever stands next to us - with the nearest hand - none of the cross over arms crap!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Following on from Auld Lang Syne we sing "A Guid New Year):

A Guid New Year Tae Ane an Aw
A guid New Year tae ane an aw,
An mony may ye see!
An durin aw the years tae come,
O happy may ye be!
An may ye nee'er hae cause tae murn,
Tae sigh or shed a tear!
Tae ane an aw, baith great an sma,
A hertie, Guid New Year!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hae a Guid New Year ane an aw frae Bonnie Scotland!
User   Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:01 pm GMT
>> A Guid New Year Tae Ane an Aw
A guid New Year tae ane an aw,
An mony may ye see!
An durin aw the years tae come,
O happy may ye be!
An may ye nee'er hae cause tae murn,
Tae sigh or shed a tear!
Tae ane an aw, baith great an sma,
A hertie, Guid New Year! <<

That sounds really cool. I'd like to say that for the new year. Can anyone transcribe that into IPA or describe how it's pronounced in Scots?
A Guest   Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:03 pm GMT
Scots is so easy to read:

A Good New Year to One and All
A Good New Year to One and All,
And many may you see!
And during all the years to come,
O happy may you be!
And may you never have cause to mourn,
To sigh or shed a tear!
To one and all, both great and small,
A heartie, Good New Year!
Adam   Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:52 pm GMT
"A Guid New Year Tae Ane an Aw
A guid New Year tae ane an aw,
An mony may ye see!
An durin aw the years tae come,
O happy may ye be!
An may ye nee'er hae cause tae murn,
Tae sigh or shed a tear!
Tae ane an aw, baith great an sma,
A hertie, Guid New Year! "

That's just English written in a Scottish accent. Any English speaker in the world can write a poem in their own accent. But it's not another language, I'm afraid. It's English.
RC   Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:01 am GMT
A response to 'zzz';

Quote:"You're the ones who choose to learn English."

Reply: I distinctly remember Saxon dogs making Irish ILLEGAL in Ireland. hrmm choice? What about the murder of every harpist so that Ireland could not have access to its native music, or the destruction of ALL the harps which for Ireland were war instruments as well as instruments of laughter.
Oh, ya, and the 'Divine Right of Kings', and the doctrine of 'Criminalization',,,,etc, etc, ad nauseum. I think you may want to rephrase 'by choice'.

Pretty much anything England colonized turned into crap and they ended up having to bail on the country they were trying to colonize;
IE. South Africa, India, North Ireland (still there btw), and even Hong Kong had serious problems it never had despite its economic boom which was due more to the 'Tiger Economy' set up by the Americans than by the brits. You might want to read up on 'Zero Tolerance Manufacturing', and 'Six Sigma' before you actually respond.
Sian   Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:59 am GMT
I agree with RC above. Only a hundred years ago, the act of speaking Welsh was punished severely in primary schools- Every school had a "Welsh Not"- a kind of necklace made from a piece of string and wood. If the master heard a child speaking Welsh(as they did at home) he would make the child wear the "WELSH NOT". That child's task would then be to catch another child speaking welsh, so that he could pass the WELSH NOT on to him. Whoever was wearing the WELSH NOT last thing before going home was caned.

I think it says it all.