Is there a gay accent in English?
<<Shuimo is an example of why strong China is bad. They can adopt our economic system, but they can never adopt out ideas of freedom, equality and human dignity. >>
Nor do they plan to! And why should they? Westerners seem to have some idea that whenever they think of something they like that automatically means it's "universal".
Well, the West is declining for the first time in 500 years, and now others get to decide what is "universal".
No. Western ideals are the only good ideals that can possibly exist.
There's a reason why so many people immigrate to the West.
Imagine somebody wanting to move to China and actually stay there... LOL!
I think that Western ideals have some room for improvement, but Chinese ideals are positively evil. There is no way any good can come from China unless they change their ways to Western ways.
I had no desire to try and group a whole nation of people into one category. If you had read my post, you would have understood this. I think Shumio is one person. It would be dumb to think that all of China held his understanding of the world. By the way Shumio Fan, you are doing the same thing about "westerners".
I hear you, Winterweis, and I agree with you (this also applies to your long post on the last page).
Unfortunately, it seems that Shuimo's beliefs lend credence to Une petite fille's assertion whilst Une petite fille, in turn, is a prime example of the stereotypical "Westerner" described by Shuimo Fan.
Une petite fille: Yes, there is a reason why so many people immigrate to the West. It's money, plain and simple. Freedom, equality and human dignity are valid reasons too, but only a minority of immigrants would give these as their principal motives.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for democracy, freedom, equality and (especially) human dignity. However, I don't see democracy and freedom as the be-all end-all. There are other considerations which, in my opinion, are equally important in a developing country like China. Two examples are stability and livelihood.
On the other hand, rising nationalism in China is a worrying trend. Nationalism itself is not a bad thing (am I proud to be Chinese? Of course!), but mainstream Chinese Nationalism in its current guise is imbued with tinges of chauvinism, bigotry and xenophobia. It is bent on exacting revenge for perceived injustices against the Chinese people which ought to be relegated to the dustbin of history. China can learn a lot from Japan, which adopted and improved many positive aspects of traditional Chinese culture (largely eroded in China itself due to the Cultural Revolution). But China won't, because it still sees Japan as "the enemy".
The West, to be sure, also has its failings (or what I subjectively perceive to be its failings). I respect rights and values, but all too often they are the focus of an obsessive fixation in the West. Rights and values are all well and good until they clash with each other.
The right of a woman to choose vs. the right of a foetus to live,
Equality of all regardless of sexual orientation vs. Judeo-Christian values which form the basis of traditional western thought...
Both sides continue to structure their arguments in terms of *absolute* rights, *absolute* values. There will never be an end to these debates because neither side is willing to accept a compromise.
To be fair, China shows the same failing in dealing with Tibet and Taiwan.
Sorry... Wintereis, not "Winterweis".
And I wrote my name as "Edinburgh Medic (Chinese in Britain)" but the last part got cut off.
"Nor do they plan to! And why should they? Westerners seem to have some idea that whenever they think of something they like that automatically means it's "universal".
Well, the West is declining for the first time in 500 years, and now others get to decide what is "universal"."
Yet society in China itself is changing.
Women, who previously in China held a role as strictly a slave for their husbands are beginning to flex their muscles; divorces are becoming more and more common.
People often focus on how horrible women had it under Islam without realizing that it was just as bad for them in China until rather recently. Can you imagine a society where the feet of women were bound so tightly that they couldn't walk?
Hear, hear.
Except that the abolition of foot binding isn't exactly a recent event. It's thanks to the Republic of China, not the Communists, that women aren't still hobbling around on deformed feet.
Interestingly enough, women in China had far more rights and powers during the Tang Dynasty a millennium ago than in the last days of the empire. The cruelty of footbinding had yet to be invented, women played sports alongside men, ran (often shady) businesses, and scandalised the more conservative elements of society with their plunging necklines. They could initiate divorces under certain circumstances, and there was even a female emperor with absolute powers (yes, an emperor, not an "empress", which carries subservient connotations in Chinese).
<<Women, who previously in China held a role as strictly a slave for their husbands are beginning to flex their muscles; divorces are becoming more and more common.
People often focus on how horrible women had it under Islam without realizing that it was just as bad for them in China until rather recently. Can you imagine a society where the feet of women were bound so tightly that they couldn't walk? >>
Women, who previously in the West held a role as strictly a slave for their husbands are beginning to flex their muscles; divorces are becoming more and more common.
People often focus on how horrible women had it under China without realizing that it was just as bad for them in the West until rather recently. Can you imagine a society where the feet of women were bound so tightly that they couldn't breathe (ie corsets)?
*Can you imagine a society where the WAISTS of women were bound so tightly that they couldn't breathe (ie corsets)?
<<There is no way any good can come from China unless they change their ways to Western ways. >>
I doubt that China has any intention of being "good" to the west once they achieve complete world dominance. They will presumably do what's good for China. Given that China is overcrowded, they need living room and resources.
Basically, they need our land and resources, and would be a lot better off if they didn't have to share the planet with us. Once they get the chance, I assume they will spill over their borders and liquidate whatever non-Chinese populations they find. I sure wouldn't want to be a young person (non-Chinese) today, with this dark cloud hanging over my future. In fact, any Westerner planning to have a child should think twice about how that child will end up in a Chinese-controlled world -- perhaps buried in a mass grave/ditch a few decades from now?
wannabe demotivator
Wintereis said:
<Many of the Shamanic religions of the world consider the "homosexual" sacred and some even include homosexual acts as a rite of passage into adult hood. ... Pre-Columbian native Americans perceived homosexuals, "two spirited people", as holy. They were thought to have an ability to move between worlds. ... In Egypt, Hermes Trismegistus was born from the "homosexual" relationship between the two sun gods, Horace and Thoth.>
A bizarre mixture of mumbo-jumbo and patronising special pleading.
"Given that China is overcrowded, they need living room and resources."
China is hardly overcrowded (look beyond the big coastal cities). It does need more resources but not more land.
<<China is hardly overcrowded (look beyond the big coastal cities). It does need more resources but not more land. >>
I suppose overcrowding is relative. It must be about 4x more crowded than the US (which seems crowded to me), but less crowded than Japan or England.
<<A bizarre mixture of mumbo-jumbo and patronising special pleading.>>
Yes, but that is the story of human history. I was answering a question about which cultures and religions accept "homosexuality". This was a direct responce to a question asked by another poster.