Is Afrikaans Basically the Same As Dutch?

Cindy   Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:10 am GMT
"How can you compare pairs of languages, or forms of speaking, or dialects without knowing those languages? "

Easily. Just because you cannot do it, that's not our problem.


"Maybe I've written correctly."
See this is your problem. You do not realize how ridiculous and annoying you are.

1 - Please, go away. No one likes you. You are not popular and no one cares about your opinions. We have heard them before a million times and ..., uh, NO.
2 - Please, go away. No one likes you. You are not popular and no one cares about your opinions.

oh, btw, (lol) {also stupid}
Joao   Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:22 am GMT
«Easily. Just because you cannot do it, that's not our problem.»


Oh!... Can you? (lol)...... ooops... bad excuse from you (lloooool)


«See this is your problem. You do not realize how ridiculous and annoying you are.»

Aren't you describing yourself? (looooooool) This is called "mirroring"


«1 - Please, go away. No one likes you. You are not popular and no one cares about your opinions. We have heard them before a million times and ..., uh, NO.
2 - Please, go away. No one likes you. You are not popular and no one cares about your opinions. »

(looool). Thank you for your advice, but you could go yourself away and it would be a perfect example for all the spammers and trolls who stick around here, shitting their personal ghosts and not talking about languages. Besides you're not everybody, in case you were not aware. I don't think I'll go (lol)

«oh, btw, (lol) {also stupid}»

Mirroring again? (lol)
Joao   Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:24 am GMT
Could anyone be so kind as to answer my previous question, or will I have to ask it again, maybe under a different name? (lol)
anyone   Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:41 am GMT
Your questions are uninteresting under any nickname so don't expect answers.
Joao   Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:06 am GMT
The question is on-topic and pertinent. Your bullshit is not.

Regarding the influence of the French Huguenots, Swedish and German XVII century immigrants, also perhaps Sephardi Jews fleeing the inquisition, the overwhelming English, the Portuguese, Malaysian immigrants, the Flemish, and obviously the Africans, how much of these influenced the Afrikaans language?
PARISIEN   Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:06 am GMT
<< Hi, I'm just wondering where did the Afrikaans speaker get the following words:

Hierdie for dit/deze (This/These)
Daardie for dat/die (That/Those)

So that literal meaning of "hierdie" is "here-the" and "daardie" is "there-the".

It doesn't make sense to me. >>


-- It does make loads of sense since parallel constructions are widely used in French (ce ... -ci, ce ...-là, ceci, cela, celui-ci, celle-là etc.) and Scandinavian languages (den här, den där, det här, de där, de här etc.).

So, it was in some way ingrained in Dutch genetic memory, even if it came to realization only in its Afrikaans variant.
Baldewin   Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:09 pm GMT
Probably via French, because a great deal of the white Afrikaners have that heritage.
Language Critic   Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:52 am GMT
<< Still, we understand each other fluently. Sometimes we don't understand some word or idiom, but that's really it actually. Literature in Afrikaans lies for grasping for Dutch-speakers.
We should pay more attention for each other's culture, in my opinion. As for lately, the cowardly western press has put a stigma of Apartheid on the entire Boer people (even though the history behind it is more complex). This has caused Dutch-speaking to back-off and ignore their culture. Nowadays the discussion is rising whether to de Taalunie work together with die Taalkommissie. I am all for it!

There are even Afrikaner groups who shout for more Dutch attention. Look here: http://www.afrikaans.nu/.

This is no nationalism, but one has to take advantage of one's own cultural influential atmosphere. >>

Well, I agree with you Baldewin.

I also wish that Dutch and Afrikaans will merge again someday as a single language. At least the extent of the differences between the two speeches will the same as that of Portuguese and Brazilian differences.

I tried accessing the link that you posted using Google to translate the text to English and it gave me a hard time understanding it. So what I did is I copied and pasted the text and text in Afrikaans and Google tanslated it to Dutch and then I copied and pasted it to be Google translated it to English and the result was far more satisfactory.

The following text was taken from http://www.afrikaans.nu/ and I used the procedures I mentioned above.

GEVOLGE VAN DIE INVOERING VAN AFRIKAANS AS KULTUURTAAL EN DIE AFSKRYWING VAN NEDERLANDS (Afrikaans)

Die afstap van Nederlands op Afrikaans as ons kultuurtaal, het ons meer verdriet gebring as heil.

In die Nederlandse taalgebied word tans ongeveer 20,000 boektitels per jaar op die mark gebring (inklusief herdrukke). 'n Vlaamse of Nederlandse biblioteek en boekwinkel staan vol Nederlandstalige werke, met 'n baie klein aantal boeke in ander tale. Dit is nie die geval in Suid-Afrika nie, inteendeel. Het ons by Nederlands as kultuurtaal gehou was alle Nederlandstalige boeke ook in Suid-Afrika vir die Afrikaner beskikbaar. Ons boeke was dan weer vir die Nederlandse en Vlaamse markte bestem, soos nog vroeg in die 20ste eeu die geval was.

Afrikaans het 'n stigmataal geword. Apartheidstaal. Het ons by Nederlands as kultuurtaal gehou was die stigmatisering nie moontlik nie, want dan was ons taal ’n internasionale taal, soos wat dit tot en met 1925 was. Die amptelike taal van Namibië sou Nederlands gewees het en nie Engels nie (Afrikaans is daar die lingua franca en Afrikaans = Nederlands).

Van die 4,000 Nederlandstalige tydskrifte sou daar ook op ons winkelrakke gepryk het, waar Engels nou heers. Dan was trouens alle Nederlandstalige kultuurprodukte uit die hele Nederlandse taalgebied (Zuid-Afrika, Vlaanderen, Nederland en Suriname) gemeengoed, soos tans vir Engels in die Engelstalige lande. Dink byvoorbeeld aan CD's, DVD's, rekenaarprogramme, rekenaarspelletjies, tv-programme, films, ens., wat in Nederland en Vlaandere in Nederlands beskikbaar is, maar wat ons in Suid-Afrika alleen maar in Engels ken.

In Vlaandere word weekliks ’n Nederlandstalige ‘top tien’ musiekprogram op TV en radio aangebied. In Suid-Afrika is dit met die skrapse aanbod van Afrikaanstalige musiek gewoon onmoontlik, maar sou moontlik gewees het indien ons by Nederlands as kultuurtaal gehou het.

Tot en met 1925 was Nederlands so deel van die Afrikaner soos pap en boerewors. Die taal was koesterend aan die hart gedruk. Ons het die Groot Trek aangepak met Nederlands as kultuurtaal en Afrikaans as omgangstaal en so ook die Anglo-Boereoorlog. Ons het trouens die Groot Trek en die Anglo-Boereoorlog aangepak om ons taal en kultuur te beskerm en te verdedig teen die Engelse taal en kultuur. Hierdie taal wat ons so kragdadig beskerm het, was Nederlands. Hy was van óns. Hy was eiegoed. Vandag is dieselfde taal andermansgoed. Engels, die taal waarteen ons ten stryde getrek het, is vandag half-eiegoed.

Ons taalskeiding met Nederlands hou vir ons geen verryking in nie en is 'n tragiese gebeurtenis in ons taalgeskiedenis.

GEVOLGEN VAN HET IMPORTEREN VAN AFRIKAANS ALS KULTUURTAAL EN DE AFSKRYWING VAN NEDERLANDS (Dutch)

Die afstap van Nederlands op Afrikaans as ons kultuurtaal, het ons meer verdriet gebring as heil. De afstap van Nederlands op Afrikaans als wij kultuurtaal, heeft ons meer verdriet gebracht als heil.

In die Nederlandse taalgebied word tans ongeveer 20,000 boektitels per jaar op die mark gebring (inklusief herdrukke). In het Nederlandse taalgebied worden nog ongeveer 20.000 boektitels per jaar op de markt gebracht (incl. herdrukke). 'n Vlaamse of Nederlandse biblioteek en boekwinkel staan vol Nederlandstalige werke, met 'n baie klein aantal boeke in ander tale. een Vlaamse of Nederlandse bibliotheek en Boekwinkel staat vol Nederlandstalige werken, met een zeer klein aantal boeken in andere talen. Dit is nie die geval in Suid-Afrika nie, inteendeel. Dit is niet het geval in Zuid-Afrika niet, Integendeel. Het ons by Nederlands as kultuurtaal gehou was alle Nederlandstalige boeke ook in Suid-Afrika vir die Afrikaner beskikbaar. Hebben wij bij Nederlands als kultuurtaal waren alle Nederlandstalige boeken ook in Zuid-Afrika voor de Afrikaner beschikbaar. Ons boeke was dan weer vir die Nederlandse en Vlaamse markte bestem, soos nog vroeg in die 20ste eeu die geval was. We boeken was dan weer voor de Nederlandse en Vlaamse markt gezet, zoals nog vroeg in de 20e eeuw het geval was.

Afrikaans het 'n stigmataal geword. Afrikaans is een stigmataal geworden. Apartheidstaal. Apartheidstaal. Het ons by Nederlands as kultuurtaal gehou was die stigmatisering nie moontlik nie, want dan was ons taal 'n internasionale taal, soos wat dit tot en met 1925 was. Hebben wij bij Nederlands als kultuurtaal waren de stigmatisering niet mogelijk, want dan was onze taal een internationale taal, zoals die tot en met 1925 was. Die amptelike taal van Namibië sou Nederlands gewees het en nie Engels nie (Afrikaans is daar die lingua franca en Afrikaans = Nederlands). De officiële taal van Namibië zouden Nederlands geweest en geen Engels niet (Afrikaans is er de lingua franca en Afrikaans = Nederlands).

Van die 4,000 Nederlandstalige tydskrifte sou daar ook op ons winkelrakke gepryk het, waar Engels nou heers. Van de 4,000 Nederlandstalige tijdschriften zou er ook op ons winkelrakke gepryk, waar Engels nu heerst. Dan was trouens alle Nederlandstalige kultuurprodukte uit die hele Nederlandse taalgebied (Zuid-Afrika, Vlaanderen, Nederland en Suriname) gemeengoed, soos tans vir Engels in die Engelstalige lande. Dan was trouwens alle Nederlandstalige kultuurprodukte uit het gehele Nederlandse taalgebied (Zuid-Afrika, Vlaanderen, Nederland en Suriname) gemeengoed, zoals momenteel voor Engels in de Engelstalige landen. Dink byvoorbeeld aan CD's, DVD's, rekenaarprogramme, rekenaarspelletjies, tv-programme, films, ens., wat in Nederland en Vlaandere in Nederlands beskikbaar is, maar wat ons in Suid-Afrika alleen maar in Engels ken. Denk bijvoorbeeld aan cd's, dvd's, computerprogramma, rekenaarspelletjies, tv-programma's, films, enz.., Die in Nederland en Vlaanderen in het Nederlands beschikbaar is, maar wat we in Zuid-Afrika alleen maar in het Engels kennen.

In Vlaandere word weekliks 'n Nederlandstalige 'top tien' musiekprogram op TV en radio aangebied. In Vlaanderen wordt wekelijks een Nederlandstalige 'top tien' musiekprogram op TV en radio aangeboden. In Suid-Afrika is dit met die skrapse aanbod van Afrikaanstalige musiek gewoon onmoontlik, maar sou moontlik gewees het indien ons by Nederlands as kultuurtaal gehou het. In Zuid-Afrika is het met de skrapse aanbod van Afrikaanstalige muziek gewoon onmogelijk, maar zou mogelijk geweest zijn indien we bij Nederlands als kultuurtaal hielden.

Tot en met 1925 was Nederlands so deel van die Afrikaner soos pap en boerewors. Tot en met 1925 was Nederlands zo deel van de Afrikaner als pap en boerewors. Die taal was koesterend aan die hart gedruk. De taal was koesterend aan het hart gedrukt. Ons het die Groot Trek aangepak met Nederlands as kultuurtaal en Afrikaans as omgangstaal en so ook die Anglo-Boereoorlog. Wij hebben de Grote Trek uitgevoerd met Nederlands als kultuurtaal en Afrikaans als omgangstaal en zo ook de Anglo-Boerenoorlog. Ons het trouens die Groot Trek en die Anglo-Boereoorlog aangepak om ons taal en kultuur te beskerm en te verdedig teen die Engelse taal en kultuur. We hebben trouwens de Grote Trek en de Anglo-Boerenoorlog uitgevoerd om onze taal en cultuur te beschermen en te verdedigen tegen de Engelse taal en cultuur. Hierdie taal wat ons so kragdadig beskerm het, was Nederlands. Deze taal, die wij zo krachtig verdedigen, was Nederlands. Hy was van óns. Hij was van ons. Hy was eiegoed. Hij was eiegoed. Vandag is dieselfde taal andermansgoed. Vandaag is dezelfde taal andermansgoed. Engels, die taal waarteen ons ten stryde getrek het, is vandag half-eiegoed. Engels, de taal waar we ten stryde getrokken heeft, is vandaag half-eiegoed.

Ons taalskeiding met Nederlands hou vir ons geen verryking in nie en is 'n tragiese gebeurtenis in ons taalgeskiedenis. Wij taalskeiding met Nederlands houdt voor ons geen verryking in en is een tragische gebeurtenis in ons taalgeskiedenis.

CONSEQUENCES OF THE INTRODUCTION OF AFRIKAANS AS THE WRITE-DOWN OF CULTURE AND OF DUTCH (Google translation from Afrikaans)

The drop off from Dutch to Afrikaans as our events, we have brought more grief than salvation.

In the Dutch language is currently approximately 20.000 books titles per year on the market (including reprints). a Flemish or Dutch libraries and bookshops are full of Dutch works, with a very small number of books in other languages. This is not the case in South Africa, contrary. Did we dutch as all of culture was held in Dutch books in South Africa for the Afrikaner available. We were booked again for the Dutch and Flemish markets earmarked as still in the early 20th century was the case.

Afrikaans has a stigmataal become. Apartheidstaal. Did we dutch as of culture on the stigma was not possible, because then our language was an international language, as it is up to 1925 was. The official language of Namibia would have been dutch and not english not (Afrikaans is the lingua franca and Afrikaans = dutch).

4.000 of the Dutch journals were also on our shelves gepryk, where English prevails now. Dan was in fact Dutch kultuurprodukte all around the Dutch language (South Africa, Flanders, the Netherlands and Suriname) gemeengoed, as is currently for English in English speaking countries. Examples are CD's, DVD's, computers, rekenaarspelletjies, tv shows, movies, etc.., In the Netherlands and Flanders in Dutch available, but we in South Africa alone but know English.

In Flanders weekly A Dutch 'top ten' music program on TV and radio offered. In South Africa it is with the offer of skrapse eesti music simply impossible, but would have been possible if we dutch as Cultural Heritage held.

CONSEQUENCES OF IMPORTING AFRIKAANS AS THE LANGUAGE AND CULTURE OF DUTCH AFSKRYWING (Google translation from Dutch)

The foothold of Dutch culture in Afrikaans language as we, has brought us more grief and salvation.

In the Dutch language are still about 20,000 book titles a year on the market (including reprints). library and a Flemish or Dutch Dutch working Bookstore is filled with a very small number of books in other languages. This is not the case in South Africa not the contrary. Have we in Dutch culture and language were all Dutch books in South Africa for the Afrikaner available. We book was in turn put the Dutch and Flemish market, even as early in the 20th century was the case.

Afrikaans language has become a stigma. Apartheid language. Have we in Dutch language and culture, the stigma is not possible, because then our language was an international language, such as those to 1925. The official language of Namibia would no English and Dutch had not (Afrikaans is the lingua franca = Dutch and Afrikaans).
Of 4.000 Dutch journals would also shop our racks gepryk, where English prevails now. Then indeed all products from the entire Dutch culture Dutch speaking area (South Africa, Flanders, Netherlands and Suriname) common property, as currently in English in the English-speaking countries. Think of CDs, DVDs, computer, rekenaarspelletjies, TV shows, movies, etc.. Who in The Netherlands and Flanders in Dutch available, but what we in South Africa know only English.

In Flanders, a Dutch weekly "Top Ten" Music on TV and radio programming offered. In South Africa the offer of the Afrikaans music SKRAAPE impossible, but would have been possible if we were in Dutch language and culture.

Until 1925 Dutch as part of the Afrikaner as porridge and Boerewors. The language was hugging the enjoined. We have made the Great Trek of Dutch culture and language and Afrikaans as well as colloquial and the Anglo-Boer War. We also have the Great Trek and the Anglo-Boer War made our language and culture to protect and defend the English language and culture. This language, which we defend so vigorously, was Dutch. He was ours. He was eiegoed. Today the same language is other people's property. English, the language we have learned to struggle, is now half-eiegoed.

We taalskeiding with Dutch does not enrich us and is a tragic event in our language Geskiedenis.

CONSEQUENCES OF IMPORTING AFRIKAANS AS THE LANGUAGE AND CULTURE OF DUTCH AFSKRYWING (Edited but there are words that cannot be translated into English because of my limited knowledge of Dutch/Afrikaans)

The removal of Dutch culture in Afrikaans language on us has brought us more grief and salvation.

In the Dutch language there are at least about 20,000 book titles a year on the market (including reprints). A Flemish or Dutch library and bookstore are filled with a very small number of books in other languages. This is not the case in South Africa on the contrary. We used to have Dutch culture and language were all in Dutch available for Afrikaners in South Africa. It was the when our book was in turn part of the Dutch and Flemish market, even as early in the 20th century.

Afrikaans language has become a stigma. Apartheid language. If we only have Dutch language and culture, the stigma would not have been possible, because then our language was an international language, such as the one in 1925. The official language of Namibia would not have been English but Dutch (Afrikaans is the lingua franca = Dutch and Afrikaans).
If 4.000 Dutch journals would also fill shop, where English prevails now then indeed all products from the entire Dutch culture and speaking areas (South Africa, Flanders, Netherlands and Suriname) would have been common merchandise, as it is now in English in the English-speaking countries. Think of CDs, DVDs, computer, rekenaarspelletjies, TV shows, movies, etc. in the Netherlands and Flanders available in Dutch, but available only in English in South Africa.

In Flanders, a Dutch weekly "Top Ten" Music on TV and radio programming is broadcasted. In South Africa the broadcasting of the Afrikaans music SKRAAPE is impossible, but would have been possible if we were in Dutch language and culture.

Until 1925 Dutch was part of the Afrikaner as porridge and Boerewors. The language was embraced and enjoined. We have made the Great Trek of Dutch culture and language and Afrikaans as well as colloquial one and the Anglo-Boer War. We also have the Great Trek and the Anglo-Boer War made our language and culture to protect and defend the English language and culture. But the language, which we defend so vigorously, was Dutch. It was ours. He was eiegoed. Today the same language is other people's property. English, the language we have learned to struggle, is now half-eiegoed.

Our taalskeiding with Dutch does not enrich us and is a tragic event in our language Geskiedenis.
Franco   Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:57 pm GMT
Since apartheid regime fell South Africa is becoming more and more a third world country. This is a fact.
Frank   Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:53 pm GMT
<< Since apartheid regime fell South Africa is becoming more and more a third world country. This is a fact. >>

APARTHEIDis far less evil than JUNTA, DESAPARECIDO, GUERILLA, CONTRA, and DROGAS such as MARIJUANA, COCAINE, ETC.
Language Critic   Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:23 pm GMT
Here's a website that deals about the cooperation between Dutch speaking countries of Netherlands, Flanders(Belgium), and Suriname and Afrikaans speaking South Africa.

http://www.roepstem.net/
Klune   Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:22 pm GMT
<<Speaking about Afrikaans, I've heard that there are Afrikaans words that come from a Malaysian language, and also some words coming from Portuguese (the later I doubt, but it's possible).

Does anyone one knows examples of such words?
>>

'Baie' as in "Baie dankie" (thanks a lot)
'Piesang' for banana
looling Joao   Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:14 am GMT
Dankie Klune

By the way, read in wikipedia about an Afrikaans word of Portuguese origin: kraal - I read somewhere that it comes from the Portuguese "curral" (kind of farm, or yard for pigs), but that it also means "pen" or "coral"

Coral is a Portuguese word with the same meaning as in English, but "pen" in Portuguese is a different word: "caneta"

The other word mentioned: milie (corn) is clearly similar to the Portuguese "milho" (the lh in Portuguese has equivalent sound to the Spanish ll, or roughly the Dutch "lje")

Apart from the former probable mistake (kraal), Wikipedia's page can be useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_Afrikaans_and_Dutch#Portuguese
Guy   Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:58 pm GMT
I agree that Afrikaans and Dutch should have more contact, and could enrich each other. Contact between the two groups should be encouraged. This is already happening to a small extent in the field of music. But as for the two languages becoming one again? That will never happen. When a Dutch programme was shown on SA TV a number of years ago, it failed dismally because people simply couldn't understand enough of it. And BVN was available on satellite, and removed because it didn't attract many viewers. Afrikaans and Dutch speakers can indeed understand each other, but depending on circumstances, where the speaker is from, accent, and so forth. A Dutch writer who attended an Afrikaans arts festival a while ago, complained that he had no difficulty following the dialogue of the Afrikaans dramas he went to watch, but had difficulty following orndinary conversations. I myself experienced that I was easily understood in some parts of the Netherlands, but not in others. In Amsterdam people thought I was German when I spoke Afrikaans!
Close friends of my parents were Dutch, and I have a keen interest in the language and the people, BTW.
Guy   Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:00 pm GMT
Incidently, the website referred to by a few people here, enjoys no credibility in South Africa. The views the gentleman expresses never even gets mentioned in the Afrikaans media, it's simply not part of the public debate. His campaign is a one man show...