Thank you.
Italian Languages
PARISIAN wrote...
-- And especially French speakers of the Aoste valley.
(I hope you didn't mention it just inadvertently. Italians are often in very bad faith when it comes about ethnical cleansing in that Alpine region)
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LOL I dont know what your problem is, sounds like Mussolini actually had Fracophone leanings in that he considered minority languages a threat to the unity of the Italian republic! Just like all those little big men who have ruled over France and it's imperialist borders. There you go, you complete amphibian eating French hypocretien.
PS free Savoy from French occupation!
-- And especially French speakers of the Aoste valley.
(I hope you didn't mention it just inadvertently. Italians are often in very bad faith when it comes about ethnical cleansing in that Alpine region)
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
LOL I dont know what your problem is, sounds like Mussolini actually had Fracophone leanings in that he considered minority languages a threat to the unity of the Italian republic! Just like all those little big men who have ruled over France and it's imperialist borders. There you go, you complete amphibian eating French hypocretien.
PS free Savoy from French occupation!
"I'm sure this didn't help the regional languages, but it's more likely that its motive was geopolitical; Mussolini was targeting Sloven speakers in Iulia, Croatian speakers in Trieste and German speakers in Tyrol."
Croats where in eastern Istria and in Dalmatia, not in Trieste. In 1900 Trieste had 30% of Slovenian population and 70% Italian.
Afther WW2 Tito did the same with Italians. Zara/Zadar was historically a Venetian city with romance speakers (dalmatians, venetians), now there are only Croats. Fiume had an Italian Population, now the Italians are 6%. The same appened for all the other Istrian and Dalmatian cities.
Croats where in eastern Istria and in Dalmatia, not in Trieste. In 1900 Trieste had 30% of Slovenian population and 70% Italian.
Afther WW2 Tito did the same with Italians. Zara/Zadar was historically a Venetian city with romance speakers (dalmatians, venetians), now there are only Croats. Fiume had an Italian Population, now the Italians are 6%. The same appened for all the other Istrian and Dalmatian cities.
<< How many people still speak Lombard? >>
In 2001 Istat (www.istat.it) said 60% of Lombards.
In 2001 Istat (www.istat.it) said 60% of Lombards.
"The irony in this, was that the Italian royal family was Savoyard; so too was Count Cavour (born in Chamenoix), who wrote in Arpitan. Vittorio Emmanuele's French was said to be of a higher standard than his Italian!"
Vittorio Emmanuele and Cavour where piedmontese mother tongue, not Arpitan. And yes, his french was better than his Italian.
Vittorio Emmanuele and Cavour where piedmontese mother tongue, not Arpitan. And yes, his french was better than his Italian.
This is Italy for the irredentist: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:RegioniIrredenteItalia.jpg
« The irony in this, was that the Italian royal family was Savoyard; so too was Count Cavour (born in Chamenoix), who wrote in Arpitan. Vittorio Emmanuele's French was said to be of a higher standard than his Italian! »
Cavour was not born in Chamonix but in Turin, which at the time, was part of the First French Empire. He spoke Piedmontese, and, like most educated Piedmontese of that period, French. It is said that he spoke Italian haltingly and with a "bad accent".
The House of Savoy may have originated in Savoy, but after Emanuele Filiberto, Duke of Savoy, moved his capital from Chambéry to Turin in 1562, succeeding generations of Savoys became less Savoyard and more Italianate.
Cavour was not born in Chamonix but in Turin, which at the time, was part of the First French Empire. He spoke Piedmontese, and, like most educated Piedmontese of that period, French. It is said that he spoke Italian haltingly and with a "bad accent".
The House of Savoy may have originated in Savoy, but after Emanuele Filiberto, Duke of Savoy, moved his capital from Chambéry to Turin in 1562, succeeding generations of Savoys became less Savoyard and more Italianate.
Here you can see that Tuscan and Italian language are different (1:36:00): http://www.rai.tv/dl/RaiTV/programmi/media/ContentItem-e5f01631-98d0-4e44-aeb3-0ca25c16b108.html?p=0
Standard Italian is better spoken in Lombardy and Piedmont.
Standard Italian is better spoken in Lombardy and Piedmont.
@ bonnaire
cheers, I stand corrected..
Also, Count Cavour was born in Turin whereas his mother's side of the family came from Thorens, a Savoyard area close to Geneva; in fact, some - though not all - of his relatives were Calvinist Protestants.
The seventh prime minister of a unified Italy, Conte Menebrea, was born in Chamberi - though went to university in Turin.
I reckon that today, having emerged from a century in which the unified nation state was the prime political mover, we have a different concept has to these 19th century people's sense of identity and loyalty.
cheers, I stand corrected..
Also, Count Cavour was born in Turin whereas his mother's side of the family came from Thorens, a Savoyard area close to Geneva; in fact, some - though not all - of his relatives were Calvinist Protestants.
The seventh prime minister of a unified Italy, Conte Menebrea, was born in Chamberi - though went to university in Turin.
I reckon that today, having emerged from a century in which the unified nation state was the prime political mover, we have a different concept has to these 19th century people's sense of identity and loyalty.
United Italy was basically a French creation to counter-balance the power of united Germany, the archy-enemy of France during the XIX century and first half of XX.It may seem an anecdote at first glance, but that the Italian flag is a copy of the French one says a lot.
<<-- And especially French speakers of the Aoste valley.
(I hope you didn't mention it just inadvertently. Italians are often in very bad faith when it comes about ethnical cleansing in that Alpine region) >>
Parisien,what about German speakers in Alsace and Lorraine?
(I hope you didn't mention it just inadvertently. Italians are often in very bad faith when it comes about ethnical cleansing in that Alpine region) >>
Parisien,what about German speakers in Alsace and Lorraine?
<< United Italy was basically a French creation to counter-balance the power of united Germany, the archy-enemy of France during the XIX century >>
-- This is worth a good laugh! Ever been to school, moron? completely clueless about history?
For your information:
- France built Italy before any unified Germany existed,
- France sided with Prussia to support Italy against the multicultural Austrian Empire. That stupid Napoleon 3rd had the illusion that homogeneous nation-states would ensure peace forever in Europe...
- Soon after Italian unity was completed (thanks to French armies and blood), Italy thankfully entered an anti-French alliance with Germany and what remained of Austrian-Ungarian empire (the "Triple Alliance").
<< Parisien,what about German speakers in Alsace and Lorraine? >>
-- Between 1900 and 1950, half of the population in Vallée d'Aoste was forced to emigration and replaced with Italian immigrants. Ethnical cleansing at its best. I do not think anything even remotely similar ever took place in Alsace. Do not hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong.
-- This is worth a good laugh! Ever been to school, moron? completely clueless about history?
For your information:
- France built Italy before any unified Germany existed,
- France sided with Prussia to support Italy against the multicultural Austrian Empire. That stupid Napoleon 3rd had the illusion that homogeneous nation-states would ensure peace forever in Europe...
- Soon after Italian unity was completed (thanks to French armies and blood), Italy thankfully entered an anti-French alliance with Germany and what remained of Austrian-Ungarian empire (the "Triple Alliance").
<< Parisien,what about German speakers in Alsace and Lorraine? >>
-- Between 1900 and 1950, half of the population in Vallée d'Aoste was forced to emigration and replaced with Italian immigrants. Ethnical cleansing at its best. I do not think anything even remotely similar ever took place in Alsace. Do not hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong.
"United Italy was basically a French creation to counter-balance the power of united Germany, the archy-enemy of France during the XIX century and first half of XX.It may seem an anecdote at first glance, but that the Italian flag is a copy of the French one says a lot."
United Italy is an English creation to counter-balance the power of France.
The original project of Cavour was an indipendent padanian state with Piedmont, Liguria, Lombardy, Emilia, Veneto, Costal Istria and Romace Dalmatia.
The other Italian states would become France puppets.
You can see here "Gli accordi di Plombières": http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camillo_Benso,_conte_di_Cavour
United Italy is an English creation to counter-balance the power of France.
The original project of Cavour was an indipendent padanian state with Piedmont, Liguria, Lombardy, Emilia, Veneto, Costal Istria and Romace Dalmatia.
The other Italian states would become France puppets.
You can see here "Gli accordi di Plombières": http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camillo_Benso,_conte_di_Cavour
<<In 2001 Istat (www.istat.it) said 60% of Lombards. >>
Thank you for the link.
Thank you for the link.