Topic 4 N Americans- How is Spanish lang perceived in USA?

Euro   Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:07 am GMT
How is the Spanish language perceived in the US?

Is it like a second class language of the “Latinos” hotel maids or construction labours?
Is it annoying in sound to Americans?
Is it important if you are bilingual English Spanish?
Is Spanish language learned by Americans in school?
Do you like Spanish? If yes what variety? Iberic or American Spanish ?

Thank you !
Tiffany   Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:39 am GMT
Why are all your question framed in the negative?

1) Nope. Definitely the language of the majority where I am from - Miami. Our government in Miami is overwhelmingly Cuban.

2) I find some dialects of Spanish annoying, others beautiful.

3) Yes if you want to find a good job in Miami. You might not need to be completely bilingual for all jobs, but a working knowledge of Spanish is a huge plus. If the job requires you to interact with customers, you will likely be required to be bilingual. Of course, a person like this is not hard to find in Miami.

4) I would say it was the most studied second language in Miami. I think MJD is right that it is the most popular foreign languages among American students. I myself took Spanish in school.

5) As I said before, I like some accents, not all. I dislike Cuban Spanish. My ex was Portuguese, but his mother was Spanish. He spoke it beautifully. I think his mother was Chilean...
CA   Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:41 am GMT
I believe in some parts of the US it is perceived as a second class language due to stereotypes, however in some states (such as New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, and Southern California) it is often perceived in a neutral tone because of the high concentration of Hispanics in those areas and the Spanish heritage of those states.

Like any language, it is annoying to some.

Well, i believe spanish is the second most spoken language in the US, so I would say yes. Moreso, however, in the Southwestern states.

In many high schools Spanish is taught. It is a extremely popular class where I live.

Yes, I like Spanish. Mostly due to my ancestry (Having both Spanish and Mexican ancestry among other things)
Euro   Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:26 am GMT
So I was right! In some parts of the US it is perceived as a second class language!

What states more exactly ?

thank you !
historybuff   Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:35 am GMT
* Is it like a second class language of the “Latinos” hotel maids or construction labours?

Latinos DONT all work in menial jobs. People employed in those jobs are overwhelmingly undocumented illegals that are easily exploited because of their vulnerable status. Latinos that are legal US citizens work in a wide variety of areas.
Kirk   Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:20 am GMT
<<Latinos that are legal US citizens work in a wide variety of areas.>>

Quite true. As the Latino population in the US grows, there has been an accompanying growth in middle-class and upper-class Latino Americans in addition to the working-class Latino stereotype.

This is quite obvious to me, as I'm from California, a state that is over a third Hispanic/Latino/whatever term you want to use. As I said before, there's been a growing middle class with the increased population. If you look at this site:

http://www.dqnews.com/WXNames0802.shtm

The top 10 last names for homebuyers in California in Jan-June 2002 (the period surveyed) were:

1 (tied): Garcia, Nguyen
3: Lee
4: Smith
5: Lopez
6: Hernandez
7: Martinez
8: Rodriguez
9: Johnson
10: Gonzalez

That's a lot of Hispanic/Latino homebuyers. To be able to afford to buy a home (especially in the super-expensive California markets, which are some of the most expensive in the nation) you have to be at least reasonably financially situated. According to the California Association of Realtors the median price of homes sold in California was $523,150 for 2005. The median home price in some urban California counties with high percentages of Hispanics/Latinos regularly crosses the $700,000 mark, with the median home price approaching the $750,000 mark for some counties.

According to Kiplinger.com the US national median home price for 2005 was $206,000 .

Anyway, this topic seems odd in that the questions are framed in the negative, as Tiffany pointed out, and it should probably be in the 'Languages' section of this website.
Guest   Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:37 am GMT
"the questions are framed in the negative"

The Spanish language is still perceived by many Americans as a third world language of the “poverty” as “Ebonics” is the language of the blacks of “crime and poverty”

yes ! the language of the "third world" .Spain is the only (Western standard )country.
Tiffany   Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:48 am GMT
I grew up in a predominantly Spanish-speaking area, a fairly middle class neighborhood. I have a hard time thinking of Spanish as the language of poverty. Many native Spanish-speakers in Miami were better off than I was. Indeed, I live in California right now and I am still hard-pressed to think any differently. I can't even afford a house in this area.

But I can't speak for everybody, of course. I honestly don't know.
Mxsmanic   Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:09 am GMT
People with Spanish surnames don't necessarily speak Spanish. I don't speak the language implied by my own surname. The United States is a nation of immigrants, and while the original immigrants may speak languages other than English, their descendants tend to switch to English, and usually cannot speak the language of their ancestors by the third generation or so.

You can be sure that any person with a Spanish surname who is buying a home is unlikely to speak only Spanish, and if he speaks English, there's no need to speak Spanish to communicate with him. Good jobs everywhere in the U.S. require proficiency in English, so any Spanish-speaking person or person with Hispanophone ancestors in the U.S. who has or wants a good job will also speak English, even if he already speaks Spanish.

In the U.S., I associated Spanish with the lower classes, or at least I associated anyone who could speak _only_ Spanish with the lower classes. Nearly half of the Hispanics in the U.S. are functionally illiterate in English, and about 60% are illiterate in Spanish as well (among those who speak any Spanish). The substandard Spanish I heard around me didn't encourage me; I didn't want to learn obscenities and incorrect grammar.

In Europe, I've decided to study Spanish for a while. Here, Spanish-speaking people are usually from Spain, not the poor neighborhoods of Tijuana, and they speak excellent Spanish.

I sometimes wonder if living in Québec or in Canada might have discouraged me from learning French.
Kirk   Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:11 am GMT
<<I grew up in a predominantly Spanish-speaking area, a fairly middle class neighborhood. I have a hard time thinking of Spanish as the language of poverty. Many native Spanish-speakers in Miami were better off than I was.>>

Yes, I grew up in a town that's about 1/3 Hispanic/Latino (so it fits in with the statewide average and overall it's a very average town) and I can say the same. One example from my hometown--we have a family friend who is Mexican-American (born and raised here in California). Her parents came to California from Mexico as young adults (they're now in their 60s), didn't speak a word of English (they do now, and their children, including my friend, also speak Spanish), and had illegal status (they are now citizens). They worked hard and have long owned their own thriving business. They live in a nice middle/upper-class suburb in the Los Angeles area, have nice cars and a nice home (which I'd say would easily be valued over $1 million, so above average in California), and sent their kids to college. Now, this isn't every immigrant's experience (I don't want to trivialize the many who do work hard for years but barely get by), but it's certainly not unheard of here. This is but one personal example while I could fill pages with more. That won't be necessary. Anyway, since the topic of economics was brought up, how could I know people like this and still associate Spanish with a language of "poverty?" The thing is the US has long been a nation of immigrants, many of whom have historically been poor when they've arrived (while the following generations have traditionally done better and better) so it wouldn't be too surprising that for any given immigration wave some native-born people might associate the language spoken by a recently-immigrated group with poverty. However, such a view is clearly missing out on a lot of the picture.

Also, it should be mentioned associations with language and economic status are not exclusive to any one language. For example, some varieties of English as spoken by native speakers of English in the US are stigmatized because they're associated with the working class or poor (I'm even talking here regardless of ethnicity--think of the stigma attached to the mostly white native speakers of English as spoken in many areas of Appalachia) so it's not even accurate to assume that all varieties of English can be popularly associated with economic success either. Besides, this also goes without mentioning that what these are are just stereotypes--based on some truth but certainly not always true or maybe even often not.
Kirk   Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:20 am GMT
<<People with Spanish surnames don't necessarily speak Spanish. I don't speak the language implied by my own surname. The United States is a nation of immigrants, and while the original immigrants may speak languages other than English, their descendants tend to switch to English, and usually cannot speak the language of their ancestors by the third generation or so.>>

That's true. For instance, Los Angeles' mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa, is a third-generation Mexican-American who is not a native speaker of Spanish. I also didn't mean to imply that all those people who bought homes spoke Spanish, tho a great deal do. My point was just in elaborating on historybuff's point that not all Hispanics/Latinos are poor working-class people.

<<You can be sure that any person with a Spanish surname who is buying a home is unlikely to speak only Spanish, and if he speaks English, there's no need to speak Spanish to communicate with him.>>

You might be surprised. The sheer amount of realtors here who advertise in Spanish or advertise in English and Spanish points to the fact there's a large market of homebuyers (and not just of the cheapest homes if you look at some of the ads which mostly cater to Spanish speakers here) who either don't know English or don't know it well enough to speak it in the complicated procedures that make up home-buying process.
Kirk   Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:22 am GMT
typo: "that make up home-buying process."

I meant: "that make up the home-buying process."
Tiffany   Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:48 am GMT
Have you been to California Mxsmanic? Many billboards around here are in Spanish - and these billboards are not located in bad neighborhoods. Who would pay good money to advertise to the poor?

And in Miami it's not just billboards, whole supermarkets and stores speak Spanish as the de facto language. They'll switch to English only when one demonstrates a poor understanding of the language. I almost think Spanglish is the language of youth there. English and Spanish co-exist quite well here. And you pass on the heritage. It's the cultural tradition here.
Tiffany   Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:52 am GMT
To amend the above post, they'll speak English if you look like you're from out-of-town. But as many Cubans could pass for white, it gets hard. They have no problem switching. Though as I definitely don't look Cuban, I get English by default.
JJM   Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:08 am GMT
There's no doubt that any prejudice against Spanish in the US is just that - prejudice, linked to a dislike of Hispanic/Latin Americans. But, as has been well stated by others, that's to be expected when many Americans feel "threatened" (rightly or wrongly) by the growth of the Hispanic community and the influx of Mexican migrants.

However, I'd agree that most Americans don't harbour any particular antipathy towards the Spanish language at all.

Now, as a Canadian, I think I need to set you right on the status of French in my country. French is not a language somehow introduced into Canada in the way Spanish has been to the US. French is one of the founding languages of the country, alongside English. It has been an official language in Canada at the federal level since Confederation (1867). Prior to that, it was an official language in the colony of Lower Canada (Bas-Canada).

Indeed, the first European language to become "native" in Canada was French, not English.