Weird article. Tell me if this makes sense or not.
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/a-reclassification-of-the-dutch-language/
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/a-reclassification-of-the-dutch-language/
Is "Dutch" 16 different languages?
16"different languages" of Dutch are dialects of Dutch.
What is "Italian"? Piedmontese,Sicilianu,Napulitanu,Tuscan,Ligurian,Venetian and so on.What is Spanish? Castilian,Asturian,Leonese,Argonese,Andaluzian and so on. What is French? Picard,Norman,Champenois,Burgundian and so on.
What is "Italian"? Piedmontese,Sicilianu,Napulitanu,Tuscan,Ligurian,Venetian and so on.What is Spanish? Castilian,Asturian,Leonese,Argonese,Andaluzian and so on. What is French? Picard,Norman,Champenois,Burgundian and so on.
<<Antwerp East Flemish is a very unusual East Flemish lect that must be a separate language. Other East Flemish speakers say that they cannot understand it. It is probably on the edge of East Flemish heading out towards Brabants. This language is spoken in Antwerp. In a study, 51% of other East Flemish speakers said that they wanted subtitles when listening to Antwerp East Flemish speakers on TV (De Houwer 2008).>>
Antwerpian is a Brabantian dialect and understood by all Dutch speakers. But Ghent East Flemish as spoken by old people is indeed hard to understand. Also, he's saying 'Verkavelingsvlaams' appears to be quite intelligible by Dutch speakers. That's also nonsense. It's no different than Austrian German is from German German. There are always people who exaggerate the differences of course (often people with a VERY old fashioned view about what defines a language).
But for the rest, it's true that our view of a language is very classic and many dialects can be seen and behave as separate languages.
Antwerpian is a Brabantian dialect and understood by all Dutch speakers. But Ghent East Flemish as spoken by old people is indeed hard to understand. Also, he's saying 'Verkavelingsvlaams' appears to be quite intelligible by Dutch speakers. That's also nonsense. It's no different than Austrian German is from German German. There are always people who exaggerate the differences of course (often people with a VERY old fashioned view about what defines a language).
But for the rest, it's true that our view of a language is very classic and many dialects can be seen and behave as separate languages.
Nothing different than with other languages actually, including English. ;-)
Which tells us that a Standard language is very necessary, even after people produce work in their dialect/language (sometimes hard to define which is which).
Especially when a dialect/language (depends on intelligibility) has produced culture it's of course always interesting to re-learn it.
Especially when a dialect/language (depends on intelligibility) has produced culture it's of course always interesting to re-learn it.
After re-reading it. He does make a lot sense. VRT Dutch is Belgian Dutch however, the 'Flemish' he's talking about is the informal language spoken in our soaps which has grammatical differences from Standard Belgian Dutch, but even that isn't a separate language. It's actually 'Brabantian Dutch' which he called a dialect of Dutch in his article.
For the rest I agree that the old Brabantian acts a a seperate language as Norman differs from French.
For the rest I agree that the old Brabantian acts a a seperate language as Norman differs from French.
Here's an example of this 'Brabantian Dutch' (or 'Flemish' as some call it, which too nationalistic for a name and ignores linguistic diversity IMO), the most dominant variant in the Flemish region.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bQMS5f1HM
Where I live people speak like that in informal settings. This variant is a dialect Dutch however.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bQMS5f1HM
Where I live people speak like that in informal settings. This variant is a dialect Dutch however.
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/a-reworking-of-german-language-classification/
German is maybe even more than 50 languages. The same guy breaks it into 163 languages! WTF! Damn man.
German is maybe even more than 50 languages. The same guy breaks it into 163 languages! WTF! Damn man.
I wonder what he has to say about French and the historical oïl-languages. To be continued. ;-)
<<criterion of >90% intelligibility = dialect and <90% intelligibility = language.>> This makes sense-Portuguese and Spanish intelligibility is 89%<90%.Conclusion: Portuguese and Spanish are separate languages,not dialects.
So, Brazilian Portuguese is a separate language from Continental Portuguese since most Brazilians don't understand a fast dialog between two Portuguese people (in a movie or sitcome, therefore the need to dub them). Same for Swiss German.
1. German people don't understand Swiss German, but Swiss people understand German. so from the German point of view, these are two separate languages, from the Swiss point of you they are not, because Swiss people understand Germans perfectly.
2. From the Brazilian point of view, Brazilian Portuguese is a separate language from Brazilian Portuguese because many people have difficulties understanding it (paradox: most Brazilians call their language: português). For Portuguese people, Brazilian Portuguese is not a separate language since they can understand it perfectly (paradox: Portuguese people call language of Brazil: brasileiro ''Brazilian'')
So, there are two identities in every equation: from x to y, and from y to x.
Cape Verdeans understand both Portuguese and Brazilians, as well as Spanish perfectly, but people speaking only these languages cannot understand even basic phrases in Cape Verdean creole.
3. Afrikaans people understand the Flemish, but they don't understand the Dutch. Dutch people subtitle Flemmings. How many languages do we have here?
1. German people don't understand Swiss German, but Swiss people understand German. so from the German point of view, these are two separate languages, from the Swiss point of you they are not, because Swiss people understand Germans perfectly.
2. From the Brazilian point of view, Brazilian Portuguese is a separate language from Brazilian Portuguese because many people have difficulties understanding it (paradox: most Brazilians call their language: português). For Portuguese people, Brazilian Portuguese is not a separate language since they can understand it perfectly (paradox: Portuguese people call language of Brazil: brasileiro ''Brazilian'')
So, there are two identities in every equation: from x to y, and from y to x.
Cape Verdeans understand both Portuguese and Brazilians, as well as Spanish perfectly, but people speaking only these languages cannot understand even basic phrases in Cape Verdean creole.
3. Afrikaans people understand the Flemish, but they don't understand the Dutch. Dutch people subtitle Flemmings. How many languages do we have here?