I've only visited the UK twice, but both times I was there I heard Warwick pronounced "Warrick" (without the middle w). I can't speak to any of the other -wiches, -wicks, or -wikes.
Liverpool accent
To most of the Britain and the English speaking world, it's 'Alnwick' not 'Anick' Anyway, the wich/wick/etc suffix is NOT always silent in English place names.
Alright - there is always an exception isn't there! IPSWICH - the county town of Suffolk, England, & the hometown of the historic Roman Catholic Cardinal Thomas Wolsey, Archbishop of York and Lord Chancellor of England who fell foul of England's King Henry VIII when he failed to obtain the Pope's permission to annul Henry's marriage to Catherine of Aragon and who later died in disgrace in Leicester Abbey in 1530 while on his way down to London to face trial for "treason".
This was the start of England's breakaway from the Roman Catholic Church of Rome and the establishment of the Church of England, all because of the avarice and lust and cruelty and desire for a male heir which none of his six wives were successfully able to provide him with beyond infancy.
Ipswich is, of course, pronounced as "IPS-wich". Nobody in their right mind would say "IPS-ich".
AAMOI - it was in a court in Ipswich, in the mid 1930s - that the infamous Wallis Simpson, the American woman who stole an English King - Edward VIII, later Duke of Windsor on his marriage to Mrs Simpson in 1937 - obtained a divorce from her second husband Ernest Simpson, leaving her free to marry the then King, which she did but lost Edward the British Throne in the process and precoipitated the Abdication.
Ever since Ipswich has tried to live down the shame of being involved in all of this.
Another exception is Prestwich, near Manchester......it's as spelled, straightforward. Similarly Prestwick, on the coast of Ayrshire, Scotland, and the location of an airport.
In Northumberland, England - bordering onto Scotland - there is a magnificent castle in the town of Alnwick - ANN-ick - not an exception, and with a silent L as well.
Warwick is "WORR-ick".
Near to Ipswich is the "drowned" village of Dunwich (DUNN-ich"), swallowed up by the North Sea eons ago.
Here in Scotland we have the lovely town of Hawick (HOY-ick)
Right on the north coast of Scotland we have plain old Wick - just say "Wick" and you'll be fine....you have no other option.
Very little is as it seems in the UK when it comes to such things as this.
This was the start of England's breakaway from the Roman Catholic Church of Rome and the establishment of the Church of England, all because of the avarice and lust and cruelty and desire for a male heir which none of his six wives were successfully able to provide him with beyond infancy.
Ipswich is, of course, pronounced as "IPS-wich". Nobody in their right mind would say "IPS-ich".
AAMOI - it was in a court in Ipswich, in the mid 1930s - that the infamous Wallis Simpson, the American woman who stole an English King - Edward VIII, later Duke of Windsor on his marriage to Mrs Simpson in 1937 - obtained a divorce from her second husband Ernest Simpson, leaving her free to marry the then King, which she did but lost Edward the British Throne in the process and precoipitated the Abdication.
Ever since Ipswich has tried to live down the shame of being involved in all of this.
Another exception is Prestwich, near Manchester......it's as spelled, straightforward. Similarly Prestwick, on the coast of Ayrshire, Scotland, and the location of an airport.
In Northumberland, England - bordering onto Scotland - there is a magnificent castle in the town of Alnwick - ANN-ick - not an exception, and with a silent L as well.
Warwick is "WORR-ick".
Near to Ipswich is the "drowned" village of Dunwich (DUNN-ich"), swallowed up by the North Sea eons ago.
Here in Scotland we have the lovely town of Hawick (HOY-ick)
Right on the north coast of Scotland we have plain old Wick - just say "Wick" and you'll be fine....you have no other option.
Very little is as it seems in the UK when it comes to such things as this.
Most of the English speaking world have never even heard of the place. Those that have call it "Anick", though you're right that this doesn't apply to all "wick"s.
Aldwinkle & Bullwinkle:
Is not the word "lying" a wee bit strong?
I agree with you about all those exceptions - see my post above, and my last comment therein. In the UK there are always exceptions to the rules in so many ways, and place names are no exception to this.
I've actually been to Droitwich, in Worcestershire, England - "DROIT-wich" - apparently the Romans mined for salt here which is why some of the medieval buildings there are quite crooked and leaning at quite scary angles even though they are declared safe by the authorities at regulkar intervales.
Subsidence as a result of the salt mines over the centuries is the cause, as it is in Northwich (NORTH-wich) in Cheshire, England - another exception! - where the Romans mined for salt. In fact the suffix "wich" in place names actually refers to the mining of salt, as a matter of historical interest.
I made my last posting before I read yours - it's amusing to see that some of the places are mentioned are included in your list. I'm sure there must be more.
We have plenty of placenames in Scotland that are not pronounced in the same way as they are spelled - some quite noticeably so - such as Culzean (Ayrshire) and Glamis (Angus) - "CULL-ayn" and "GLAHMS" to name just two. It was in Glamis Castle, in 1930, that Princess Margaret, the Queen's late sister, was born.
It was in the castle at Culzean during WW2 that the American military leader and later American President Dwight D Eisenhower was based when he planned, along with his British counterparts at Culzean - the invasion and liberation of Nazi occupied Continental Europe in June 1944 onwards.
Uriel - think nothing of it - nae worries - no need for an apology at all.
Cilla Black could never disguise her accent, whether speaking or singing, even if her life depended on it......A Scouser through and through.
Is not the word "lying" a wee bit strong?
I agree with you about all those exceptions - see my post above, and my last comment therein. In the UK there are always exceptions to the rules in so many ways, and place names are no exception to this.
I've actually been to Droitwich, in Worcestershire, England - "DROIT-wich" - apparently the Romans mined for salt here which is why some of the medieval buildings there are quite crooked and leaning at quite scary angles even though they are declared safe by the authorities at regulkar intervales.
Subsidence as a result of the salt mines over the centuries is the cause, as it is in Northwich (NORTH-wich) in Cheshire, England - another exception! - where the Romans mined for salt. In fact the suffix "wich" in place names actually refers to the mining of salt, as a matter of historical interest.
I made my last posting before I read yours - it's amusing to see that some of the places are mentioned are included in your list. I'm sure there must be more.
We have plenty of placenames in Scotland that are not pronounced in the same way as they are spelled - some quite noticeably so - such as Culzean (Ayrshire) and Glamis (Angus) - "CULL-ayn" and "GLAHMS" to name just two. It was in Glamis Castle, in 1930, that Princess Margaret, the Queen's late sister, was born.
It was in the castle at Culzean during WW2 that the American military leader and later American President Dwight D Eisenhower was based when he planned, along with his British counterparts at Culzean - the invasion and liberation of Nazi occupied Continental Europe in June 1944 onwards.
Uriel - think nothing of it - nae worries - no need for an apology at all.
Cilla Black could never disguise her accent, whether speaking or singing, even if her life depended on it......A Scouser through and through.
"Is not the word "lying" a wee bit strong?"
...you are worthy of it for boldly peddling (to a foreign audience in the tone of the God's honest truth) your theory that W is always stilled in wich and wick endings in English place names. You were wrong!
Also for your suspicious failure to bring up place names (for example) like Ipswich, Aldwych, Gippeswyk and Sandwich (world's most known word with 'wich' in it) while managing to bring up examples which fit your bent aka Norwich and Harwich.
Plus I gave you about a small nationsworth of other spannerintheworks examples but yet you still mispeddle -wich and -wick endings with uttered Ws as bloody exceptions to your false rule!
Damian exactly how many examples of -wich and -wick place name endings being fully pronounced do you need for them not to be exceptions? Cant believe you think the lovely Scottish town of Lerwick is prounounced (Lerrick) I charge you with willful gross incompetence at the least.
AJC wether folks have heard of Alnwick/Fenwick or not, most of Britain on seeing it would pronounce Alnwick Aln-wick not Annick.
Stilled or bespoken?
Random Northumberland examples:
Eachwick (Eech-wick)
Prendwick (Prend-wick)
Howick (not Hawick Scotland) (hoke?)
Bewick (beyoo-wick)
Elwick (El-wick)
Goswick (Gos-wick)
Abberwick (Abber-rick?)
Denwick (Den-wick)
Lowick (Lo-rick?)
Cheswick (Ches-sick, akin to Chiswick in London?)
PS Damien, tell me how you think the English place name Gippeswyk is pronounced? Give you a clue it ryhmes with Barbara Stanwyck.
...you are worthy of it for boldly peddling (to a foreign audience in the tone of the God's honest truth) your theory that W is always stilled in wich and wick endings in English place names. You were wrong!
Also for your suspicious failure to bring up place names (for example) like Ipswich, Aldwych, Gippeswyk and Sandwich (world's most known word with 'wich' in it) while managing to bring up examples which fit your bent aka Norwich and Harwich.
Plus I gave you about a small nationsworth of other spannerintheworks examples but yet you still mispeddle -wich and -wick endings with uttered Ws as bloody exceptions to your false rule!
Damian exactly how many examples of -wich and -wick place name endings being fully pronounced do you need for them not to be exceptions? Cant believe you think the lovely Scottish town of Lerwick is prounounced (Lerrick) I charge you with willful gross incompetence at the least.
AJC wether folks have heard of Alnwick/Fenwick or not, most of Britain on seeing it would pronounce Alnwick Aln-wick not Annick.
Stilled or bespoken?
Random Northumberland examples:
Eachwick (Eech-wick)
Prendwick (Prend-wick)
Howick (not Hawick Scotland) (hoke?)
Bewick (beyoo-wick)
Elwick (El-wick)
Goswick (Gos-wick)
Abberwick (Abber-rick?)
Denwick (Den-wick)
Lowick (Lo-rick?)
Cheswick (Ches-sick, akin to Chiswick in London?)
PS Damien, tell me how you think the English place name Gippeswyk is pronounced? Give you a clue it ryhmes with Barbara Stanwyck.
"Near to Ipswich is the "drowned" village of Dunwich (DUNN-ich"), swallowed up by the North Sea eons ago. "
For eff sake Damien your at it again!
Your now wrongly whiping Dunwich off the map. Take a look, Dunwich still stands!...http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/content/images/2006/07/11/ru_dunwich_beach_village_400_400x300.jpg
For eff sake Damien your at it again!
Your now wrongly whiping Dunwich off the map. Take a look, Dunwich still stands!...http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/content/images/2006/07/11/ru_dunwich_beach_village_400_400x300.jpg
You - and for that matter I - forgot to mention a very well known town which has, for centuries, featured very prominently in the histories of both my country - Scotland - and maybe, just maybe but I suspect it probably is - yours: England.
BERWICK - or to give it its full title - BERWICK UPON TWEED.
A "frontier" town at one time when we were at loggerheads with the English most of the time, but now merely called a "border" town with a name which is pronounced as "BERR-ick" as you will agree to be the case.
It was once in Scotland, then it was shunted into England, and over the years as moved back and forth across the border between Scotland and England about nine times or so but now it seems to be permanently in England again but only just, give or take about three or four miles or so but don't hold your breath on that one....... ;-)
You hear more Scottish accents on the streets of Berwick-upon-Tweed than you do English ones that's for sure, even if all the official signs clearly indicate the fact that it is now part of England.
How about this one - a place in Yorkshire the name of which which may well make you chuckle - close to Settle, in North Yorkshire, right at the southern end of the historic Settle to Carlisle railway line - a wee village by the name of GIGGLESWICK.
Now only a stupit* clown would call it "GIGGLE-sick"!
*Scottish version.
Denwick as "Den-wick"? I've never heard of it but I see that, like Berwick, it's in Northumberland.
Down in Worcestershire, close to Worcester city is Henwick - I know for sure that it's pronounced as "HEN-ick" - there is a very busy railway level crossing there close the the city centre and it's locally known as "HEN-ick Crossing".
There is absolutely no consistency between all these "wicks" and "wiches".
Everybody knows how to pronounce Sandwich anyway.....I've been there too - it's very cose to the ancient Roman fortress of Richborough, in East Kent, to the north of Dover and overlooking the English Channel. To most people that name automatically brings to mind two slices of bread with the filling of your choice, or to some people interested in this sport - a very prominent golf course which is really close to the shore of the Channel.
This topic is now beginning to get on my wick - I think it's all because you tore a strip off me big time..... ;-)
PS: Did you know that the town of Berwick-upon-Tweed is officially still at war with Russia? They forgot to call a truce apparently after some long forgotten conflict.
BERWICK - or to give it its full title - BERWICK UPON TWEED.
A "frontier" town at one time when we were at loggerheads with the English most of the time, but now merely called a "border" town with a name which is pronounced as "BERR-ick" as you will agree to be the case.
It was once in Scotland, then it was shunted into England, and over the years as moved back and forth across the border between Scotland and England about nine times or so but now it seems to be permanently in England again but only just, give or take about three or four miles or so but don't hold your breath on that one....... ;-)
You hear more Scottish accents on the streets of Berwick-upon-Tweed than you do English ones that's for sure, even if all the official signs clearly indicate the fact that it is now part of England.
How about this one - a place in Yorkshire the name of which which may well make you chuckle - close to Settle, in North Yorkshire, right at the southern end of the historic Settle to Carlisle railway line - a wee village by the name of GIGGLESWICK.
Now only a stupit* clown would call it "GIGGLE-sick"!
*Scottish version.
Denwick as "Den-wick"? I've never heard of it but I see that, like Berwick, it's in Northumberland.
Down in Worcestershire, close to Worcester city is Henwick - I know for sure that it's pronounced as "HEN-ick" - there is a very busy railway level crossing there close the the city centre and it's locally known as "HEN-ick Crossing".
There is absolutely no consistency between all these "wicks" and "wiches".
Everybody knows how to pronounce Sandwich anyway.....I've been there too - it's very cose to the ancient Roman fortress of Richborough, in East Kent, to the north of Dover and overlooking the English Channel. To most people that name automatically brings to mind two slices of bread with the filling of your choice, or to some people interested in this sport - a very prominent golf course which is really close to the shore of the Channel.
This topic is now beginning to get on my wick - I think it's all because you tore a strip off me big time..... ;-)
PS: Did you know that the town of Berwick-upon-Tweed is officially still at war with Russia? They forgot to call a truce apparently after some long forgotten conflict.
Damian what is dangerous about you, is that you manage both to be 'not a bad read' but yet manage to get things 100% wrong aka the British 'wich' place name endings and killing off of Dunwich. You can be convincing read but your almost reflex locking into of shallow end of media historical stereo-typing effs it up. Anyway, no need to reply just stay away from the media misinformation.
As the starter of the thread, I don't think that Damian was lying, I'm new here but I think that his posts are some of the most interesting in the forum (maybe even the most interesting). A lapsus can happen to anyone, but it's very rude to be accusing someone of lying when he has one error in 1000 posts. So people, move on...
Peace on Earth.
Peace on Earth.
<<his posts are some of the most interesting in the forum (maybe even the most interesting).>>
That's the problem. Some of the most interesting stuff there is is not actually true. Often fantasy makes for a better story than reality.
<<A lapsus can happen to anyone, but it's very rude to be accusing someone of lying when he has one error in 1000 posts.>>
It's all the more important to point out a 1000-poster's errors, because the more well known a person is the more they can abuse their reputation. There can come a point where people stop examining them critically and then they can get away with anything.
That's the problem. Some of the most interesting stuff there is is not actually true. Often fantasy makes for a better story than reality.
<<A lapsus can happen to anyone, but it's very rude to be accusing someone of lying when he has one error in 1000 posts.>>
It's all the more important to point out a 1000-poster's errors, because the more well known a person is the more they can abuse their reputation. There can come a point where people stop examining them critically and then they can get away with anything.
<As the starter of the thread, I don't think that Damian was lying, I'm new here but I think that his posts are some of the most interesting in the forum (maybe even the most interesting). A lapsus can happen to anyone, but it's very rude to be accusing someone of lying when he has one error in 1000 posts. So people, move on...
Peace on Earth. >
You should understand that Damian doesn't make "one error in 1000 posts". To anyone who knows anything about British life and culture and history and language, his posts are an almost comical tissue of cliches, half truths, and wishful thinking. This poster is 100% correct, except in the "not a bad read" part:
< Damian what is dangerous about you, is that you manage both to be 'not a bad read' but yet manage to get things 100% wrong >
Peace on Earth. >
You should understand that Damian doesn't make "one error in 1000 posts". To anyone who knows anything about British life and culture and history and language, his posts are an almost comical tissue of cliches, half truths, and wishful thinking. This poster is 100% correct, except in the "not a bad read" part:
< Damian what is dangerous about you, is that you manage both to be 'not a bad read' but yet manage to get things 100% wrong >
Look at this comically childlike nonsense, for instance:
<This was the start of England's breakaway from the Roman Catholic Church of Rome and the establishment of the Church of England, all because of the avarice and lust and cruelty and desire for a male heir which none of his six wives were successfully able to provide him with beyond infancy. >
The Church of England dates from 597; and King Edward VI, who certainly survived "infancy", was Henry's son by Jane Seymour.
The only fact in the whole paragraph is that Henry VIII had six wives.
<This was the start of England's breakaway from the Roman Catholic Church of Rome and the establishment of the Church of England, all because of the avarice and lust and cruelty and desire for a male heir which none of his six wives were successfully able to provide him with beyond infancy. >
The Church of England dates from 597; and King Edward VI, who certainly survived "infancy", was Henry's son by Jane Seymour.
The only fact in the whole paragraph is that Henry VIII had six wives.