High English

Vinlander   Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:07 pm GMT
What would it take to make a Germanic version of enlglish. I.e. a mix between modern english and german and old english. IT seems like it would be an interesting idea. I.e. remove all latin based words out of the language and replace them with germanic ones, also adding a case system as well.


My interest in doing this wouldn't be pratical more of a nerdy interest, or as a language learn by students to help with learning german. Basically it would be german with english phonetics. Instead of Der Die Das you would have Thir Thie Thas, Instead of german wer(with a v) you would have wer. Verstehen would still be understand.

I found a similiar idea Anglish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglish, however it has no changes in grammar. Also it revives forgotten OE words instead of using Modern german words.
Hightongmouth   Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:38 pm GMT
Wish English didn't have so many spik words and to prove my grumble what the hell is a 'case system' ?
Theodisc   Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:20 pm GMT
I think it's a cool idea!
BrE2   Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:00 pm GMT
Some unpleasant little rightwing group has beaten you to it.
.   Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:04 pm GMT
<<I found a similiar idea Anglish http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglish, however it has no changes in grammar. Also it revives forgotten OE words instead of using Modern german words. >>

That link is corrupt (it has a terminating comma). The correct link shuld be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglish

<<What would it take to make a Germanic version of enlglish. I.e. a mix between modern english and german and old english.>>

English is already a Germanic version. A *more* Germanic version should include Middle and Old English, but not necessaily German. English has little to do with German. Instead, Old Norse would be a better option to add higher register words.

And no case system needed!
.   Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:08 pm GMT
This is nice

"To be, or not to be – that is the fraign:
Whether ‘tis more athal in the mind to underbear
the slings and arrows of hisceous dright
or to take up gattow against a sea of agledge,
and by striming end them? To die, to sleep –
no more – and by a sleep to say we end
the heartache, and the thousand quithin shocks
that flesh is urphe to. ‘Tis a fulfilledness
austly to be wished. To die, to sleep –
to sleep, by hap to dream: ay, there’s the rub;
for in that sleep of death what dreams may come
when we have shuffled off this quelworth hame,
must give us blince. There’s the lec
that makes braughtrey of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and canks of time,
the downweigher’s wrong, the proud man’s tenquid
the warks of hospal love, the law’s ielding,
the orgol of ambit, and the spurns
that longstram earning of the unworthy takes,
when he himself might his roo make
with a bare bradawl? "
Robert P   Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:23 pm GMT
"To be, or not to be – that is the fraign:
Whether ‘tis more athal in the mind to underbear
the slings and arrows of hisceous dright
or to take up gattow against a sea of agledge,
and by striming end them? To die, to sleep –
no more – and by a sleep to say we end
the heartache, and the thousand quithin shocks
that flesh is urphe to. ‘Tis a fulfilledness
austly to be wished. To die, to sleep –
to sleep, by hap to dream: ay, there’s the rub;
for in that sleep of death what dreams may come
when we have shuffled off this quelworth hame,
must give us blince. There’s the lec
that makes braughtrey of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and canks of time,
the downweigher’s wrong, the proud man’s tenquid
the warks of hospal love, the law’s ielding,
the orgol of ambit, and the spurns
that longstram earning of the unworthy takes,
when he himself might his roo make
with a bare bradawl? "

Wow, that is very nice. Is this some new form of language centred around using Anglian words? It really does look like natural English.
Originalname   Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:48 pm GMT
"Some unpleasant little rightwing group has beaten you to it. "

You sound like an unpleasant, self-rightious little lefty.
Leasnam   Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:33 pm GMT
<<Instead of Der Die Das you would have Thir Thie Thas>>

In Middle English (Southern dialects), the declined forms of "the" still lingered for some time, and the distinction between singular ("the") and plural ("tho") for longer still. However, a normalised modern equivalent would be along the lines of:

Definite Article
Nom [Acc] Dat Gen [Inst]

M the [then] them thes [the]
F tha [tha] ther ther [ther]
N thet [thet] them thes [the]

P tha [tha] them [them]


The demonstrative could be:
Nom [Acc] Dat Gen [Inst]

M thee [thane] theam thas [thy]
F thoa [thoa] thear thear [thear]
N that [that] theam thas [thy]

P thoa [thoa] thoam thoar/thear [thoam]

I bracketted out the Accusative and Instrumental cases, as those would have probably been absorbed into the Dative (as an almean or general Objective case)
--   Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:15 pm GMT
@ Vinlander Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:07 pm GMT:

<<What would it take to make a Germanic version of enlglish. I.e. a mix between modern english and german and old english. IT seems like it would be an interesting idea. I.e. remove all latin based words out of the language and replace them with germanic ones, also adding a case system as well.>>

What you're about to do is called ''conlanging''. You are not the only one with this kind of interest, see www.conlanger.com or www.spinnoff.com/zbb

<<My interest in doing this wouldn't be pratical more of a nerdy interest, or as a language learn by students to help with learning german. Basically it would be german with english phonetics. Instead of Der Die Das you would have Thir Thie Thas, Instead of german wer(with a v) you would have wer. Verstehen would still be understand.>>

To make a naturalistic conlang is not that easy. If you really want to, check out the given links and read the LCK (language construction kit).
This is most recommended if you don't have any clue about what I'm talking about. There will be a book version of the LCK soon.

The ''german with english phonetics'' thingy doesn't seem naturalistic nor ''High'' in any respect. You would have to start with an ancestor language, e.g. Old English, and device sound changes to obtain your ''High English''. Even a ''High'' variant of a language would borrow words form neighbouring languages to some degree, if you want to go for a natural development of your conlang.

Speaking ''High German'' does not mean to only use germanic words. High German = Hochdeutsch does contain many loan words form languages such as French or Latin or Greek. Take the word ''Fenster'' = window. It looks perfectly germanic or German, but is a loan form Latin, as far as I know. The french word is quite similar.

Replacing loan words by germanic ones is just ''puristic'' and highly ridiculous. And, how can you tell if a word is ''germanic''? Maybe it was just borrowed at a very early stage in the development of the germanic languages.

If you want to learn German, you shouldn't distort the German language by your own. Neither should you learn the distorted German provided by our ministers of diseducation in the socalled ''Rechtschreibreform''. Stick to the classical, i.e. pre 1996 rules. It's far more easier and consistent. Reformed spelling will be reformed and reformed again.

Wenn Du hier etwas Deutsch lernen willst, dann helfe ich Dir gerne. Ob das allerdings von den ''höheren Rängen'' von Antimoon geduldet wird, ist sehr fraglich. (Bittere Erfahrung!)
* Brennus   Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:13 pm GMT
<<Wenn Du hier etwas Deutsch lernen willst, dann helfe ich Dir gerne. Ob das allerdings von den ''höheren Rängen'' von Antimoon geduldet wird, ist sehr fraglich. (Bittere Erfahrung!) >>

German is verboten
THREAD CLOSED
--   Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:52 pm GMT
Ah, Brennus finally has learned German. Congratulations!
geiler Wicht   Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:20 pm GMT
>>And no case system needed!<<

A case system is indeed a marker of Germanicness.
Leasnam   Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:06 pm GMT
<<A case system is indeed a marker of Germanicness. >>

Wirkly?

Latin, Greek and Sanskrit are Germanic languages then, or at least are high in "germanicness".

Whilst English, Dutch, Afrikaans, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish are low in "germanicness"

I'm so glad you told us this!
Vinlander   Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:18 pm GMT
I'm aware of conlangs, however they usually rely on madeup or archaic words. I would prefer to use words already in use in other germanic tonuges. I'm not against latin words some would still have to used. But when there are german words that can do the job quite well why not? I mean why not use fragen versus question to me it seems very natural.
Or entdecken instead of discovery.

Furthermore i'm just shooting out ideas. I do see a need for some sort of High//pure//academic//heritage// version of english. Just look at the EU everyone has to spend years learning english, when at some point UK out of fairness are gonna have to learn other languages. It would also be nice if a say a German person and English person could have more of a middle tongue between them. Cases would be useful not because it's germanic, but because its a common trait in Russian, hindi and even latin. Plus Angloes lack a language we can learn easily say when compared to Germans, or spainards.

As Far a this being a right wing idea, most right wingers see little value in language unless it makes them money.Furthermore the reason liberals arn't for it because liberals are romantics. They love cultural diversity as long as it's novel and different from there own, the second you mention there own culture they right it off as being boring.

I guess old english would work for alot of these ideas, but dead languages are hard to resurrect it's much easier to piggyback off modern ones like german.