Get rid of Y and all problems will be solved.
Why do the Dutch dislike their language so much?
Dutch people can be very frosty to outsiders learning their language, typically replying in English even if the original query was perfectly understandable. And it's nothing to do with them wanting to practise their English as the vast majority already speak that language very well. I find this attitude very strange.
Зейир эшэмд бъкас зейир факкин кантфейсис энд зей лайк ту кип зейир лейгвидж фур зимселвс бъкас Зи Незирлэндс ар рийли э джиянт мазирфаккин гейклаб, зи факкин дэрти кантс зет зей ар!
The problem of this thread is that there are very few people who care in the slightest to find factual answers to questions which themselves should be based on verifiable findings.
Who told you that the Dutch do not like their language? Polls, article quotations, other sources? Before you ask the reasons for the Batavian's disaffection towards their own vernacular, it would help to know if such disdain is indeed observed in practice. The size of Dutch messages on information signs and the number of English-language Dutch songs is interesting but not enough.
In addition, reasons such as the supposed exacerbated liberalism in the Netherlands not only sit on neither any data nor any demonstration, they also answer a baseless question and thus are invalid to begin with. They can very efficiently flatter personal prejudices and politics-based preconceptions though.
Indeed, considerations about liberalism in the Netherlands are not always driven towards a geniune interest in the country's politics. Rather, they tend to be a fictious construction used as a political strawman for the Western conservatives, a conviction-reassurer through the fear of an over-the-top opposite that often exists only in the imagination of the speech-maker.
I'm afraid that is exactly what is going on in this thread.
Who told you that the Dutch do not like their language? Polls, article quotations, other sources? Before you ask the reasons for the Batavian's disaffection towards their own vernacular, it would help to know if such disdain is indeed observed in practice. The size of Dutch messages on information signs and the number of English-language Dutch songs is interesting but not enough.
In addition, reasons such as the supposed exacerbated liberalism in the Netherlands not only sit on neither any data nor any demonstration, they also answer a baseless question and thus are invalid to begin with. They can very efficiently flatter personal prejudices and politics-based preconceptions though.
Indeed, considerations about liberalism in the Netherlands are not always driven towards a geniune interest in the country's politics. Rather, they tend to be a fictious construction used as a political strawman for the Western conservatives, a conviction-reassurer through the fear of an over-the-top opposite that often exists only in the imagination of the speech-maker.
I'm afraid that is exactly what is going on in this thread.
This is why the French Imperialists use the term Francophone in Belgium, so that all the colonized upper class Flemish and Germans can be included to make the percentage of Frenchness in Belgium seem bigger. Same with 90% of foreign nationals in Belgium too. At the very least, half of so-called Francohone/French speaking Belgium is not ethnically nor historically French/Walloon/Romance.
Folk would be shocked at the difference in numbers, if Belgium was broken down Flemish v Walloon rather than Dutch speaking v French speaking.
Is it true that Brussels (Bruxelles) a hundred year ago was a 90% Dutch speaking city? And that today it's a 90% French speaking city.
The French speakers are from former French colonies, rather than from Belgium. So why can't the Dutch do the same. Invite Dutch families from (the Netherlands and former Dutch colonies to go settle in Brussels) in one hundred years from now Brussels will be Dutch speaking again.
It seems like the only way to take back the city from the Francophones.
Folk would be shocked at the difference in numbers, if Belgium was broken down Flemish v Walloon rather than Dutch speaking v French speaking.
Is it true that Brussels (Bruxelles) a hundred year ago was a 90% Dutch speaking city? And that today it's a 90% French speaking city.
The French speakers are from former French colonies, rather than from Belgium. So why can't the Dutch do the same. Invite Dutch families from (the Netherlands and former Dutch colonies to go settle in Brussels) in one hundred years from now Brussels will be Dutch speaking again.
It seems like the only way to take back the city from the Francophones.
«Dutch people can be very frosty to outsiders learning their language, typically replying in English even if the original query was perfectly understandable. And it's nothing to do with them wanting to practise their English as the vast majority already speak that language very well. I find this attitude very strange.»
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It is. They like to hide their real society, which it's very different from the general myths about the country.
However, in some areas such as Rotterdam, command of the Dutch language is a lot more important than in Amsterdam. Rotterdammers are not so keen in speaking in English because it's not a touristy or service based city. For those who want to learn Dutch, Rotterdam is a better place.
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It is. They like to hide their real society, which it's very different from the general myths about the country.
However, in some areas such as Rotterdam, command of the Dutch language is a lot more important than in Amsterdam. Rotterdammers are not so keen in speaking in English because it's not a touristy or service based city. For those who want to learn Dutch, Rotterdam is a better place.
I notice a few people have mentioned in this thread that the Dutch can be quite xenophobic, and have almost a fascist attitude towards outsiders.
Could the attitude of the Dutch be likened to that of the Japanese, with which they basically view non-Dutch people as the "out-group", which as a result means they like to keep their language and real culture to themselves, almost as if it's an exclusive little club. However, prehaps when they hear a foreigner speaking Dutch well, it makes them feel uneasy, so to put themselves at ease and maintain the integrity of their exclusive group, they insist on speaking English to the foreigner and treat his leanering of the language with frosty disregrd.
Could the attitude of the Dutch be likened to that of the Japanese, with which they basically view non-Dutch people as the "out-group", which as a result means they like to keep their language and real culture to themselves, almost as if it's an exclusive little club. However, prehaps when they hear a foreigner speaking Dutch well, it makes them feel uneasy, so to put themselves at ease and maintain the integrity of their exclusive group, they insist on speaking English to the foreigner and treat his leanering of the language with frosty disregrd.
<< This is why the French Imperialists use the term Francophone... >>
-- Someone is begging for help. He obviously suffers heavy mental health problems.
<< Dutch people can be very frosty to outsiders learning their language, typically replying in English even if the original query was perfectly understandable. >>
-- This is unfortunately very true. The English language is a useful tool sometimes, nothing else. It's a shame that so many people in the Netherlands prefer it over their own language. This is just sheer self-inflicted humiliation.
-- Someone is begging for help. He obviously suffers heavy mental health problems.
<< Dutch people can be very frosty to outsiders learning their language, typically replying in English even if the original query was perfectly understandable. >>
-- This is unfortunately very true. The English language is a useful tool sometimes, nothing else. It's a shame that so many people in the Netherlands prefer it over their own language. This is just sheer self-inflicted humiliation.
I do see, however, more and more people getting annoyed by the cultural Anglicization. It's still too bad to be happy about it though.
<<Could the attitude of the Dutch be likened to that of the Japanese, with which they basically view non-Dutch people as the "out-group", which as a result means they like to keep their language and real culture to themselves, almost as if it's an exclusive little club. However, prehaps when they hear a foreigner speaking Dutch well, it makes them feel uneasy, so to put themselves at ease and maintain the integrity of their exclusive group, they insist on speaking English to the foreigner and treat his leanering of the language with frosty disregrd. >>
Maybe, but it is still an "in group" with a big inferiority complex. They are comparable with the "in group" of Star Wars fans, who are embarrassed to talk about Star Wars with people who are uninitiated, because they know they will be laughed at. Similarly, Dutch are embarrassed to speak Dutch because it's such a laughable culture.
Maybe, but it is still an "in group" with a big inferiority complex. They are comparable with the "in group" of Star Wars fans, who are embarrassed to talk about Star Wars with people who are uninitiated, because they know they will be laughed at. Similarly, Dutch are embarrassed to speak Dutch because it's such a laughable culture.
I've noticed that there are more articles in Dutch than in Spanish or Portuguese in Wikipedia, from which I assumed that Dutch is still an influential language. My assumption could be wrong.
Dutch-speaking speak Dutch in public everywhere they go, but all know to speak English and few complain if they have to switch to it. Tourists get answered to in English indeed, but immigrants successfully learn Dutch. What boggles me however is Dutch and Flemish hardly produce music with Dutch lyrics.
Comparing Dutch closeness(?) with Japanese one is stupid of course. Mixed mariages, people of foreign origin taking on a high position, etc... is nothing you'll see in Japan as of yet. Very still it won't be weird neither comparing the Netherlands at least to Japan. Both can be conformist in their culture and they have a shared history. ;-)
Comparing Dutch closeness(?) with Japanese one is stupid of course. Mixed mariages, people of foreign origin taking on a high position, etc... is nothing you'll see in Japan as of yet. Very still it won't be weird neither comparing the Netherlands at least to Japan. Both can be conformist in their culture and they have a shared history. ;-)
The Netherlands is individualistic and conformist now to think of it. You cannot escape from having to speak with complete stranger passing your way. You'll have to get to know your neighbours. You cannot boast too much about your accomplishments. Etc... People are very polite and they have an open-debate culture and very open-minded to new ideas, but there's also a lot of social pressure on you in the Netherlands.
<<I've noticed that there are more articles in Dutch than in Spanish or Portuguese
>>
Dutch has more articles than Spanish but articles have less depth (less quality).
>>
Dutch has more articles than Spanish but articles have less depth (less quality).