French from France vs Quebec French (Canadian French)

LM   Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:43 pm GMT
go suck out Napoleans weak anus. you sad filthy french imperialist cocksucking greaseball cunt!
South Korean   Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:59 pm GMT
I think the difference is exaggerated because Quebec is a small society and most people don't listen to Quebec French often, unlike UK English.
BEbee   Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:18 am GMT
I undestand European French well but struggle really hard to understand Quebeck French. No the difference is NOT EXAGGERATED... I think even Afrikaans/ Duthc, Swedish/ Danish understand each other better.
Bouche   Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:39 am GMT
''I think the difference is exaggerated because Quebec is a small society and most people don't listen to Quebec French often, unlike UK English.''

I totally agree

''I undestand European French well but struggle really hard to understand Quebeck French. No the difference is NOT EXAGGERATED... I think even Afrikaans/ Duthc, Swedish/ Danish understand each other better.''

Wrong except for some words and I know what I'm talking about because I'm a Frenchman who lives in Québec.
,,   Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:44 am GMT
That's like a Swede who lives in Norway now...Of course the Swede will say he understands Norwegian now after living in Norway for a few weeks because he will learn the differences between the languages.

But for a Frenchman just stepping of the plane in Quebec he will struggle to understand. The Quebec person will have to speak slow and formal for the Frenchman to understand.

The GAP is huge when it comes to informal language.
.....


The gap is wider than Brazilian and European Portuguese.
Franco   Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:51 am GMT
Are there syntactical differences between Quebec French and Parisian French like in the case of Brazilian and Portuguese?.
Visitor   Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:04 am GMT
<< Your native Balloon French even differs more. >>

And so is your native Ball Dutch is much more weird than Afrikaans.

Anyway, Luister en begrijp de video zorgvuldig., Oscar de Grommen. ;-)
PARISIEN   Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:41 am GMT
<< Are there syntactical differences between Quebec French and Parisian French >>

-- of course not!
Rjhds   Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:36 pm GMT
"Are there syntactical differences between Quebec French and Parisian French like in the case of Brazilian and Portuguese?"

The question is:

Are there syntactical differences between Quebec French and Parisian French like in the case of informal Brazilian Portuguese and European Portuguese?
C'est si bon!   Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:23 pm GMT
South Korean   Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:26 pm GMT
"But for a Frenchman just stepping of the plane in Quebec he will struggle to understand."

That might be true. But suppose that you have never heard UK English in your life, not even on TV or radio. You would have the same problem when you visit London for the first time.
Bon bon   Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:16 am GMT
Grammatical differences between informal spoken Quebec French and the formal language abound. Some of these, such as omission of the negative particle ne, are present in the informal language of speakers of standard European French, while other features, such as use of the interrogative particle -tu, are either peculiar to Quebec or Canadian French or restricted to nonstandard varieties of European French. For further information, see the sections "Syntax", "Pronouns" and "Verbs" below.

Char (Chariot) becomes "voiture" car
Arrêt becomes "Stop" stop sign at an intersection
Blonde becomes "copine" or "petite amie" girl friend
Chum becomes "copain" or "petit ami" boy friend
Tabarnak becomes "tabernacle" tabernacle (in a Catholic church)
osti or 'sti becomes "hostie" host bread (in a Catholic church)
Câlice becomes "calice" chalice (in a Catholic church)
these last 3, along with many more, being used as "sacrés" in Québec taking Lord's name in vain
Dépanneur becomes "boutique" or "épicerie de quartier" convenience store



Quebec French lexical innovations

Recently coined words
Clavardage, meaning chat, a contraction of "clavier" (keyboard) and "bavardage" (chat). Verb: clavarder;

Courriel, meaning e-mail, a contraction of "courrier électronique" (electronic mail);

Pourriel, meaning spam e-mail, is a contraction of "courriel" (email) and "poubelle" (garbage). but also, it contains the word "pourri" (rotten).

Baladodiffusion, meaning podcasting, a contraction of "baladeur" (walkman) and "radiodiffusion".

Anglicisms
One characteristic of major sociological importance distinguishing Quebec French from European French is the relatively greater number of borrowings from English, especially in the informal spoken language.

In contrast, Quebecers show a stronger aversion to the use of anglicisms in formal contexts than do European francophones, largely because of what the influence of English on their language is held to reveal about the historically superior position of anglophones in Canadian society.

According to Cajolet-Laganière and Martel, out of 4,216 "criticized borrowings from English" in Quebec French that they were able to identify, some 93% have "extremely low frequency" and 60% are obsolete.

Despite this, the prevalence of anglicisms in Quebec French has often been exaggerated. French spoken with a number of anglicisms viewed as excessive may be disparagingly termed franglais. According to Chantal Bouchard, "While the language spoken in Quebec did indeed gradually accumulate borrowings from English [between 1850 and 1960], it did not change to such an extent as to justify the extraordinarily negative discourse about it between 1940 and 1960. It is instead in the loss of social position suffered by a large proportion of Francophones since the end of the 19th century that one must seek the principal source of this degrading perception."



Quebec French also borrowed words from Aboriginal languages unlike European French with no influence from Aboriginal languages.
Bon Bon   Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:22 am GMT
There are increasing differences between the syntax used in spoken Quebec French from the syntax of other regional dialects of French. However, the characteristic differences of Quebec French syntax are not considered standard despite their high-frequency in everyday, relaxed speech.

One far-reaching difference is the weakening of the syntactic role of the specifiers (both verbal and nominal), which results in many syntactic changes:

Relative clauses (1) using "que" as an all-purpose relative pronoun, or (2) embedding interrogative pronouns instead of relative pronouns:

J'ai trouvé le document que j'ai de besoin. (J'ai trouvé le document dont

j'ai besoin.) I found / I've found the document I need.

Je comprends qu'est-ce que tu veux dire. (Je comprends ce que tu veux dire.) I understand what you mean.

Omission of the prepositions that collocate with certain verbs:

J'ai un enfant à m'occuper. (Standard French: s'occuper de; J'ai un enfant dont je dois m'occuper.) I have a child (I need) to take care of.

Plural conditioned by semantics:
Le monde sont tannés des taxes. (Le monde en a assez des taxes.) Most everyone is fed up with taxes.

A phenomenon throughout the Francophonie, dropping the "ne" of the double negative is accompanied, in Quebec French, by a change in word order (1), and (2) postcliticisation of direct pronouns (3) along with euphonic insertion of [z] liaisons to avoid vowel hiatus. This word order is also found in non-standard European French.

Donne-moi-le pas. (Ne me le donne pas.) Don't give it to me.

Dis-moi pas de m'en aller! (Ne me dis pas de m'en aller) Don't tell me I have to go.

Donne-moi-z-en pas ! (Ne m'en donne pas!) Don't give me any!

Other notable syntactic changes in Quebec French include the following:

Use of non-standard verbal periphrasis, (many of them archaisms):

J'étais pour te le dire. (J'allais te le dire. / J'étais sur le point de te dire.) I was going/about to tell you about it.

Avoir su, j'aurais... (Si j'avais su, j'aurais...) Had I known, I would have...

Met que l'hiver finisse, je vais partir. (Dès que l'hiver finira, je partirai.) As soon as winter finishes, I will leave.

Particle -tu used (1) to form tag questions, (2) sometimes to express exclamative sentences and (3) on other times it's used with excess, for instance:

C'est-tu prêt? (Est-ce prêt? / C'est prêt? / Est-ce que c'est prêt?) Is it ready?

On a-tu bien mangé! (Qu'est-ce qu'on a bien mangé!) We ate well, didn't we?

T'as-tu pris tes pilules? (Est-ce que tu as pris tes médicaments?) Have you taken your medications?

This particle is -ti (from Standard French "-t-il", often rendered as [ti]) in most varieties of North American French outside Quebec as well as in European varieties of français populaire as already noted by Gaston Paris.[42] It is also found in the non-creole speech on the island of Saint-Barthelemy in the Caribbean.

Extensive use of litotes:
C'est pas chaud! (C'est frais!) It's not all too warm out!
C'est pas laid pantoute! (Ce n'est pas laid du tout!) Isn't this nice! (literally: This is not ugly at all).

Comment vas-tu? - Pas pire, pas pire. How are you? - Not bad. Not bad at all

However, these features are common to all the basilectal varieties of français populaire descended from the 17th century koiné of Paris.

Use of diminutives:

Tu prendrais-tu un p'tit café? Une p'tite bière? Would you like to have a coffee? A beer?

Pronouns
In daily use, Quebec French speakers usually use a substantially different set of subjective pronouns in the nominative case than those traditionally used in standardized French:

je/ tu/ y [i], a/ on/ vous/ y [i] (instead of je/ tu/ il, elle/ nous/ vous/ il(s), elle(s))

with [a] → [ɛ] when used with the verb and copula être

In common with the rest of the Francophonie, there is a shift from nous to on in all registers. In post-Quiet Revolution Quebec, the use of informal tu has become widespread in many situations that normally call for semantically singular vous. While some schools are trying to re-introduce this use of vous, which is absent from most youths' speech, the shift from nous to on goes relatively unnoticed.
The traditional use of on, in turn, is usually replaced by different use of pronouns or paraphrases, like in the rest of the Francophonie. The second person (tu, t') is usually used by speakers when referring to experiences that can happen in one's life:

Quand t'es ben tranquille chez vous, à te mêler de tes affaires ...
Other paraphrases using le monde, les gens are more employed when referring to overgeneralisations:

Le monde aime pas voyager dans un autobus plein.
As in the rest of la Francophonie, the sound [l] is disappearing in il, ils among informal registers and rapid speech. More particular to Quebec is the transformation of elle to [a] and less often [ɛ] written a and è or 'est in eye dialect. See more in Quebec French pronunciation.

Absence of elles - For a majority of Quebec French speakers, elles is not used for the 3rd person plural pronoun, at least in the nominative case; it is replaced with the subject pronoun ils[i] or the stress/tonic pronoun eux(-autres). However, elles is still used in other cases (ce sont elles qui vont payer le prix).

-autres In informal registers, the stress/tonic pronouns for the plural subject pronouns have the suffix –autres, pronounced /oːt/ and written –aut’ in eye dialect. Nous-autres, vous-autres, and eux-autres are comparable to the Spanish forms nos(otros/as) and vos(otros/as), yet the usage and meanings are different. One reason could be the Occitan language, which is geographically closer to French and was once spoken in Poitou and commonly uses nosautres/as and vosautres/as. Note that elles-autres does not exist.


Verbs

In their syntax and morphology, Quebec French verbs differ very little from the verbs of other regional dialects of French, both formal and informal. The distinctive characteristics of Quebec French verbs are restricted mainly to:

Regularization
In the present indicative, the forms of aller (to go) are regularized as /vɑ/ in all singular persons: je vas, tu vas, il/elle va. Note that in 17th century French, what is today's international standard /vɛ/ in je vais was considered substandard while je vas was the prestige form.
In the present subjunctive of aller, the root is regularized as all- /al/ for all persons. Examples: que j'alle, que tu alles, qu'ils allent, etc. The majority of French verbs, regardless of dialect or standardization, display the same regularization. They therefore use the same root for both the imperfect and the present subjunctive: que je finisse vs. je finissais.
Colloquially, in haïr (to hate), in the present indicative singular forms, the hiatus is found between two different vowels instead of at the onset of the verb's first syllable. This results in the forms: j'haïs, tu haïs, il/elle haït, written with a diaeresis (tréma) and all pronounced with two syllables: /a.i/. The "h" in these forms is silent and does not indicate a hiatus; as a result, je elides with haïs forming j'haïs. All the other forms, tenses, and moods of haïr contain the same hiatus regardless of register. However, in Metropolitan French and in more formal Quebec French, especially in the media, the present indicative singular forms are pronounced as one syllable /.ɛ/ and written without a diaeresis: je hais, tu hais, il/elle hait.


Differentiation
In the present indicative of both formal and informal Quebec French, (s')asseoir (to sit/seat) only uses the vowel /wa/ in stressed roots and /e/ in unstressed roots: je m'assois, tu t'assois, il s'assoit, ils s'assoient but nous nous asseyons, vous vous asseyez. In Metropolitan French, stressed /wa/ and /je/ are in free variation as are unstressed /wa/ and /e/. Note that in informal Quebec French, (s')asseoir is often said as (s')assire.
Quebec French has retained the /ɛ/ ending for je/tu/il-elle/ils in the imperfect (the ending is written as -ais, -ait, -aient). In most other dialects, the ending is pronounced, instead, as a neutralized sound between /e/ and /ɛ/.
Informal ils jousent (they play) is often heard for ils jouent and is most likely due to an old analogy with ils cousent (they sew). This is not commonly heard, because it was heavily criticised. Most people now say Ils jouent, which is the correct form instead of Ils jousent.
[edit] Vocabulary (lexis)

See Quebec French lexicon for more examples and further explanation.
The distinctive features of the Quebec French lexis are:

lexical items formerly common to both France and New France and that are today unique only to Quebec French; (This includes expressions and word forms that have the same form elsewhere in La Francophonie, yet have a different denotation or connotation.)
borrowings from Amerindian languages, esp. place names;
les sacres - Quebec French profanity (see separate article);
many loanwords, calques and other borrowings from English in the 19th and 20th centuries, whether such borrowings are considered standard French or not;
starting in the latter half of the 20th century, an enormous store of French neologisms (coinages) and re-introduced words via terminological work by professionals, translators, and the OLF; some of this terminology is "exported" to the rest of la Francophonie;
feminized job titles and gender-inclusive language;
morphological processes that have been more productive:
suffixes: -eux/euse, -age, -able, and -oune
reduplication (as in the international French word guéguerre): cacanne, gogauche, etc.
reduplication plus -oune: chouchoune, gougounes, moumoune, nounoune, poupoune, toutoune, foufoune,...
new words ending in -oune without duplication: zoune, bizoune, coune, ti-coune,...
PARISIEN   Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:07 am GMT
<< Grammatical differences between informal spoken Quebec French and the formal language abound. Some of these, such as omission of the negative particle ne, are present in the informal language of speakers of standard European French, while other features, such as use of the interrogative particle -tu, are either peculiar to Quebec or Canadian French or restricted to nonstandard varieties of European French. >>

<< However, these features are common to all the basilectal varieties of français populaire descended from the 17th century koiné of Paris. >>


-- So, there are some differences between the informal language and the standard language, in Quebec as well as in France or in any part of the Francosphere (and the same can be said ob any language)...

Big news.
Buen buen   Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:06 am GMT
<< Grammatical differences between informal spoken Quebec French and the formal language abound. Some of these, such as omission of the negative particle ne, are present in the informal language of speakers of standard European French, while other features, such as use of the interrogative particle -tu, are either peculiar to Quebec or Canadian French or restricted to nonstandard varieties of European French. >>

"Lâches pas le patate!" instead of "Ne lâches pas le patate!" is a Louisiana Cajun French expression which means "Don't let go with the potato".

Clearly, that in this phrase "ne" is omitted while "pas" is retained. This feature is not only restricted in Louisiana or Quebec but it's also very common in France, Switzerland, Belgium, Algeria, and other Francophone countries.

Nobody, in the Francophone world would say "Je n'ais" but instead they would rather say "J'ais pas".