Spanish and Italian are much closer than Italian and French

Catalanòfon   Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:09 pm GMT
Benvolgut amic italià:

Sincerament, pretendre que la llengua més pròxima a l'italià siga el castellà no es manté enlloc. Com que la seva preparació lingüística i filològica deixa molt que desitjar ho deixarem aquí.

És francament lamentable que vosté em diga histèric quan l'única cosa que he fet he demostrar-li que el parentesc entre l'italià i el castellà no és el que diu.

Malauradament, per a vosté, visc a Catalunya, doncs a Espanya, i conec molt bé Italià i França.

Els castellans autèntics entenen poc l'italià malgrat que la llengua escrita siga més intel·ligible.

Es vertaderament estrany que vosté presumesca d'un doctorat. Això no s'ho creu ningú i no ho serà mai.

I'm not an alleged Catalonian, I'm Catalonian. We'll leave it at that and I wish you good luck my poor friend.

¿Con que el castellano y el italiano son tan parecidos que serían pràcticamente la misma lengua? No me haga Vd. reír, caballero italiano.
Guest   Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:26 pm GMT
Je crois que c'est clair pour tout le monde... Le "Dr.C" est incapable de faire une phrase un peu complexe en Italien, fait des erreurs qu'un Italien (surtout s'il est prof. ne ferait pas : "Habito" au lieu de "abito"... Dr Troll !

Bref, ignorons cet individu, qui, de toute façon n'a rien à dire d'interessant.
guest   Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:48 pm GMT
Alguien que hable solo español entiende esto?. Yo no

rutto colpo! Cap Rooney,tre volte in testa alla lega quarterback trentottenne e astrodel mister Tony D'Amato, è a terra.Non vedi che è ferito?
Ogni tifoso del Miami Sharksha i crampi allo stomaco.Guardiamolo di nuovo. Cap Rooney è a terra, dolorante.
Chi ci protegge lì?
Torniamo alle condizioni di Cap dopo la pubblicità. Chiamo la barella?.
Mi stai sanguinando sul vestito.
Dategli il casco.Ti servirà, Tyler.
Questa la portiamo a casa senza di te.
Com'è essere nessuno un giorno e poi essere conosciuto da tutti?
Una stella lo ero sempre.Solo che voi non lo sapevate.
Chi vuol pensare ai blitzes quando hai i tuoi nipotini sulle ginocchia?
Ecco perché voglio fare I'allenatore al liceo.
I ragazzi non sanno niente. Vogliono solo giocare.
I proprietari ti vorrebbero a New York per una riunione.
Mi hanno frollato, ma ce la faccio.
Non lo dimenticherò mai, sai?
Tiffany   Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:59 pm GMT
<<while italian says them hard; ge/gi (as geh/gee)>>

This is false. These are soft in Italian, like the English "j"

ghe and ghi would be the hard equivalents.

<<ce is (the) italian is (che) ci is (thi) italian is chi and so on >>

I'm not sure what you were trying t get at but the ckarify

The Italian "che" is equivalent the the Spanish "que" in meaning and in sound.

The Italian "chi" sounds like the English "key" and means "who" which is the Spanish "quien".

<<
fortia (latin) fuerza (spanish) pronounced as Fuertha and Forza (italia)
doesn't perserve it. they say it as latin america...

fortiare (latin) forzar (castellano) PRONOUNCED as: forthar
forzare- italian (but loses the accent) >>

Loses what accent? The Italian forza is pronounced "fort-sa" and forzare "fort-sar-reh". I don't see how that is any farther from Latin than "fortha" and "forthar"

<<vengo (spanish and italian) they say it as venho (ven-Ho) etc. >>

Vengo in Italian is pronounced ven-go, exactly the way it is spelled.

<<example; (PORTUGUESE) As coisas nao som como antes PRONOUNCED as
aas coi-sas nou som como antes

Spanish; Las cosas no son como antes

Italian; YOU GUYS INPUT HERE...not really good in italian...:D >>

It: Le case non sono come prima.
______________________________________________

Consider that every word in the Portuguese and Spanish sentence matched up, while Italian uses "prima" for before.

Let's take another example:

En: I went to the beach on Sunday.
It: Sono andata all spiaggia domenica.
Sp: Fui a la playa domingo.
Pt: Fui à praia domingo.
(Portuguese speakers please correct me as I do not speak Portuguese)

I find it funny that both Portuguese and Spanish say they are closer to Italian than even othr even though you border each other on both continents.
Guest   Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:16 pm GMT
Here in Portugal, i watch daily a Spanish Tv Chanel, and never needed subtitles to understand it, whether its written or spoken. Portuguese and Spanish are the closest
Tiffany   Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:17 pm GMT
Dr. Costa,
I am not convinced that you are truly Italian, as you make errors no Italian would make. For instance, telling me to use "habito "instead of "vivo". "Habitar" exists in Spanish, but the equivalent in Italian is "abitare." "H" appears very rarely in Italian.

Also:
<<Sono nato in Avelino>>

In Italian, all cities and towns are preceded by "a" not "in". "In" would be used only in cases of country. Spanish does not make this distinction as I recall.

There were also some other minor spelling errors, but they are easily overlooked. (Ex. "raggione" instead of "ragione")

Perhaps you are Spanish?
Dr. C   Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:43 am GMT
Ok ! I have to confess that my parents are from Saragossa. But I was born in Italy, hence my Spanish influence is corroding my Italian.

As I've stated before:

Italian and Spanish are the most related romance languages.

Ciao
Aldo   Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:12 am GMT
As a native Spanish-speaker I found much harder to understand the French although I received lessons in the high school long time ago. Maybe a word here and there but practically it's impossible to get a complete idea or context. About Italian and Brazilian Portuguese I have to pay much attention but I can get much more. About accent of Portuguese from Portugal I have not heard much of it but I have the idea that it's much harder to understand than Brazilian.

In the other hand French is quite readable I'd say 90 or 95%. About Italian I'd say 70 or 75% and Portuguese almost 100%. Of course the common version of them.
Alfredo   Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:42 am GMT
Basta, quante cazzate raccontate. Un Italiano puo' bene o male capire lo spagnolo, ma senza qualche lezione non capisce un cazzo di francese. Questo e' il fatto.
Latino   Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:57 am GMT
Italian from rome and down below is understandable. Sicilian italian is understandable, plain italian also.

French is hard for spanish speakers.

Portuguese is similar but has nasal inflections and mute some words at the end; that make it harder to grasp

italian is like argentinian spanish for me, just that they speak differently and that it's a different language.


But all in all...all languages above are understandable. It just takes some comparison.

Italian's pronounciation and discourse/inflection/phonology/intonation are the same to Castilian spanish and latin america...

French would be easier learnt if one ALREADY knew fluent italian.

Portuguese would be EXTREMELY easy to learn if one knows spanish and italian.

MY response is that people here are pro-french because THERE'S more french speaking people on this forum. spanish speaking too...but rather neutral at times. FOR EXAMPLE on this...

by the way I'm Mexican and Spanish. And I do know italian to a extent and didn't take classes just noticed lil things and bada bing. Thank you

la gente qui sono strani.

la gente aqui son extranos.

The people on here are strange.
Guest   Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:49 am GMT
Saragossa ??

In Spain it is called Zaragoza... You're not Italian and not Spanish either...
Tiffany   Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:11 am GMT
<<la gente qui sono strani. >>

La gente qui è strana. <---

I would have thought that "La gente" in Spanish was singular too...
greg   Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:23 am GMT
Catalanòfon : « (...) És francament lamentable que vosté em diga histèric quan l'única cosa que he fet he demostrar-li que el parentesc entre l'italià i el castellà no és el que diu. (...) Es vertaderament estrany que vosté presumesca d'un doctorat. (...) »

Je crois que nous sommes confrontés à une espèce de canular. D'autant qu'à tous les doutes que tu viens de soulever, je viens en ajouter un : au début notre "Cicéron" nous expliquait que l'espagnol et l'italien se ***RESSEMBLAIENT*** l'une l'autre davantage qu'avec aucune autre langue latine ; maintenant il affirme que ***LIEN DE PARENTÉ*** entre l'espagnol et l'italien est le plus fort. Quel glissement de sens significatif pour un virtuose du logos !
greg   Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:57 am GMT
Un texte en vénitien :

« Benvegnui su ła Wikipedia en łéngoa vèneta!

Ła Wikipedia ła xe na enzsiclopedia łibara e moltiłengue. Ła version en vèneto de ła Wikipedia en sto atimo ła cónta 35 arthicołi. Łe discusion łe va fate rento el bar. Łe candidadure e votazsion xe sconimzsià!
Avertense: ła łéngua vèneda no ła gà gnancóra na grafia e na łengoa onefegà e no tuti i xe boni a scrivare en te ona de łe tante ke ghe xe. No xe inportante se ki xe drio scrivare el scriva en padoàn, veronexe, vixentin, venezsian, bełunexe o trevisan. No el xe inportante manco se ki scrive el va scriver co na grafia difarente da łe altre. Par ki vol, pò vedare su sto sito on par de consiji pa scrivare en moo ke tuti i posa intendare coxa ke se scrive o anca se pòłe vardar ła convenzsion de scritura par capirse tuti mejo. Manco i açenti no i xe obligatori, a men ke no ghe sipia do parołe ke łe canbia significà se no łe gà l'açento. Co ke calkedun scrivarà on articoło el podarà inserir el stub ke ghe dixe ai altri en ke diałeto l'è scrito. Par exerçitarte in Wikipedia va su a Sandbox. Par vedar quałi diałeti se pò siełiere, vardar quà. »

La carte linguistique de l'Italie : http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/europe/Italie-dialectes-map.htm .
Gjones2   Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:55 am GMT
That does look fairly close. The crossed 'l' is strange, though, the 'ke' for 'que', and the 'à' and 'ç'. I gather from the excerpt that writers may have some uncertainty about how to spell the various sounds.

>Ła version en vèneto de ła Wikipedia en sto atimo ła cónta 35 arthicołi.

So does this version of Wikipedia contain 35 artichokes? :-) I'll guess articles.